Penalising coaches!!!!

[Na Madrai]

Colts cup semi-final, played at the ground of a first class club.

Having ascertained that fully qualified medical personnel were present, I had a meeting before the match with all eleven coaches representing both teams. I informed them that I expected all coaches to remain in the technical areas whilst the match was in play - none were to enter the FOP without my permission.

A thrilling, fast, very tight match. With two minutes remaining, blue team score a try which, if converted, would give them a one point lead. As the kicker lines up his kick, an opposing coach runs on from the nearside and runs towards the goalposts in the general direction that the ball should follow until he finally disappears into the crowd behind the posts.

The kicker, clearly disturbed, who has not missed a kick all match, completely messes up.

What should I do - or perhaps what can I do?

NM

 

[Daftmedic]

Time off. Retake. Runner can explain himself for coming into the playing surface without your permission to a disciplinary board.

 

[Shelflife]

Id be tempted to allow a retake on the basis on an unauthorised pitch incursion.

 

[Taff]

Time off. Retake.

Id be tempted to allow a retake on the basis on an unauthorised pitch incursion.

I thought we could only allow a retake for an infringement by an opposing "player" ... which doesn't include an opposing coach.

9.B.3 The opposing team

(a) All players of the opposing team must retire to their goal line and must not overstep that line until the kicker begins the approach to kick or starts to kick. When the kicker does this, they may charge or jump to prevent a goal but must not be physically supported by other players in these actions.

... If the kick is unsuccessful, the kicker may take another kick and the opposing team is not allowed to charge.

 

[Drift]

Colts cup semi-final, played at the ground of a first class club.

Having ascertained that fully qualified medical personnel were present, I had a meeting before the match with all eleven coaches representing both teams. I informed them that I expected all coaches to remain in the technical areas whilst the match was in play - none were to enter the FOP without my permission.

A thrilling, fast, very tight match. With two minutes remaining, blue team score a try which, if converted, would give them a one point lead. As the kicker lines up his kick, an opposing coach runs on from the nearside and runs towards the goalposts in the general direction that the ball should follow until he finally disappears into the crowd behind the posts.

The kicker, clearly disturbed, who has not missed a kick all match, completely messes up.

What should I do - or perhaps what can I do?

NM

If you had a meeting and then didn't follow it up with a retake of the conversion and then ejecting that person from the playing enclosure then you have lost all credibility in my opinion.

I would question the need for the meeting with the 11 people before a big game, the coaches know they aren't allowed on the FOP so why do you need to have a meeting to tell them that?

 

[Taff]

If you had a meeting and then didn't follow it up with a retake of the conversion and then ejecting that person from the playing enclosure then you have lost all credibility in my opinion.

Law reference? And the coach was already off the playing enclosure.

.. I would question the need for the meeting with the 11 people before a big game, the coaches know they aren't allowed on the FOP so why do you need to have a meeting to tell them that?

Just a wild guess here, but I suspect there was more to it than just that.

 

[Drift]

Law reference? And the coach was already off the playing enclosure.

Not sure, something along the lines about coming on the FOP without the referee's permission.

Just a wild guess here, but I suspect there was more to it than just that.

I assume so as well, I was more questioning the need for the meeting.

 

[menace]

If it was during the kicking process then I'd let him take it again. On the basis of 'equity' and 'fairness'. IMO it can be inferred that the laws only permit certain persons entering the FOP, therefore others can not. In particular 6.A.5 (f) and 6.C.2 infers it.

6.A.5 Entering or leaving the playing area
(a) Authorised medically trained persons may enter the playing area during the match to attend to injured players. They must only enter the playing area if it is safe to do so.
(b)Persons carrying water for the players may only enter the playing area during a stoppage in play for an injury to a player.
(c)A person carrying a kicking tee may enter the field of play after a team has indicated that they intend to kick at goal after that team has been awarded a penalty kick or scored a try.
(d)The referee gives permission to the players to leave the playing area.
(e)The referee gives permission to the replacements or substitutes to enter the playing area.
(f)The coaches may enter the playing area at half-time to attend to their teams.

6.C.2 Those who may enter the playing area
The match doctor and the non-playing members of the team may enter the playing area as authorised by the referee.

In regards to 6.C.2, the referee in OP AIUI did not authorise the entry!

If he was spotted prior to the kicking, I would stop the kicker. Call time off and tell him to take all the time he needs and when HE was ready to proceed then he could kick. If he botched it after being given time to settle, then I'm sorry but too bad.

Of course then a bollocking to the guilty team for it and report to the match organisers to sort out.

 

[didds]

If it had been somebody with no clear club allegiance and certainly unconncted with the playters and match day entourage, what would you have done?

Forget its a coach for now. Its just a pitch incursioin but "a person".

In some people foetid worlds if with this club you make a BIG point of it being a coach then next time they have you and want to0p sue the same tactic, they'll just send another club member across.

didds

 

[OB..]

If it had been somebody with no clear club allegiance and certainly unconncted with the playters and match day entourage, .....

eg Erica Roe?

 

[crossref]

the kicker --
- if the kicker pulls up or is clearly y put off /distracred -- then time off, take a few moments to refocus, time back-on.
- if he ignores the disturbance and continues his preparation to kick : do nothing, let him take the kick, interfering just has the danger of putting him off more (he may not have even registered it)

no re-take.

the coach --
Assuming the coach is now nowhere to be seen, I would not leave the FoP to go amongst the crowd to find him. Just play out the last two minutes, then write up a report.

If, however, the coach is now back on the sideline jeering at the kids he has distracted, then by all means send him away.

 

[TheBFG]

11 coaches :wow:

our tech areas here are allowed 4 people and that includes water carriers!

 

[Browner]

Colts cup semi-final, played at the ground of a first class club.

Having ascertained that fully qualified medical personnel were present, I had a meeting before the match with all eleven coaches representing both teams. I informed them that I expected all coaches to remain in the technical areas whilst the match was in play - none were to enter the FOP without my permission.

A thrilling, fast, very tight match. With two minutes remaining, blue team score a try which, if converted, would give them a one point lead. As the kicker lines up his kick, an opposing coach runs on from the nearside and runs towards the goalposts in the general direction that the ball should follow until he finally disappears into the crowd behind the posts.

The kicker, clearly disturbed, who has not missed a kick all match, completely messes up.

What should I do - or perhaps what can I do?

NM

It is possible, that this kickers technique buckled under the 'pressure of the moment' he certainly wouldn't be the first for that to happen, irrespective of external distractions, we'll never know.


If after the Coacheat had ran across the pitch the kicker is given ample time to compose himself ( yes i know that this may still add to the pressure) and rekick when he's ready ( id have told him that he may take as long as he need) then I think the referee has no option other than to proceed and report the incident post match.

It seems in these days of disingenuous ' officials' gamesmanship that we need an additional Law deterrent , so two initial thoughts ????
1) a PK at the restart ???
Or ( my preference)
2) new law : if the referee becomes aware of any person represented as an official of the opposition club who takes any action that materially interferes or distracts with the kickers preparation or the kick, then the referee may allow the kick to be taken or retaken from directly in front of the posts.** ???


** the likelyhood of a person deliberately faking for a bluff is remote.

PS... The devil in me, would ( at the time of the pitch intrusion) been equally as confused by the coach encroachment , and this confusion could easily have ended up with me walking towards the coach waving him off the field , then when I return Ive forgotten the exact location of the kick , so to err on the safe side i award it some 5-15meters further infield from my now hazy/distracted recollection of where the try was scored, as I'm always easily confused whenever I witness off field gamesmanship occurring !!!!

Pps, I have no issue with the coaches briefing, it gives a clear point from which to start. X11 amateur coach/helpers are prone to be unruly!!

 

[didds]

eg Erica Roe?

works for me OB!

Tho Erica did have the decency to wait for half time

didds

 

[Browner]

works for me OB!

Tho Erica did have the decency to wait for half time

didds

"I was trying to get through to the boys - but most of them seemed to be gazing over my shoulder," recalled Beaumont

As distractions go, those two certainly achieved that !!!

 

[davidgh]

Give the retake

Interrupt the restart just as about to kick
Send captain to bring the coach
Red card him
Send to change room

 

[SimonSmith]

Never. Ever. Ever. Show a card to a coach.

 

[FlipFlop]

Never. Ever. Ever. Show a card to a coach.

Strongly disagree

It depends on the regualtions in force by your federation/union.

Over here we have specific regulations allowing us to red card ANYONE on the match sheet (and only people on match sheet allowed inside the rope). No red card = no sanction.

So over here, you can and should show a card to a coach if appropriate.

I would advise everyone to know what their federation/union/society expects in this regard.

 

[Blackberry]

"I was trying to get through to the boys - but most of them seemed to be gazing over my shoulder," recalled Beaumont

As distractions go, those two certainly achieved that !!!

And Steve Smith said "Here Bill, there's a bloke come on with your arse on his chest."

 

[Na Madrai]

Sorry for not returning to this topic earlier.

Because of the importance of this match, I decided that I would strictly enforce the rule that coaches must stay in the technical areas. This meant that there would be no instances of play being delayed whilst coaches spoke to their players whilst time was running. By speaking to all coaches before hand, all knew exactly what I required of them - if a player was injured, the physios had permission to attend without my signal but if input from a coach was required such as a substitution, I would invite them onto the pitch.

I made it very clear that I would not look kindly on coaches leaving their technical area.

Back to the OP.

The coach had disappeared into the crowd behind the posts and I could deal with him afterwards. I decided that this act of gross unsporting behaviour needed to be seen to be seriously punished by both players and spectators. Although this was the last minute of the match, my action would have to be the same as if it were the first minute and must therefore have a discouraging effect.

I therefore called both skippers to the centre spot. I informed the black skipper that his team had an extra player on the pitch whilst the match was in play. In accordance with the laws, play restarted with a PK to blue on the centre spot. They seriously thought about kicking for goal but chose to run it failing to score and hence losing the match.

Afterwards, black officials stated that the coach who had invaded the pitch must have been a spectator as no-one knew him. I put a report in but I have heard nothing back.

Now, there were two ARs appointed from the home Society and there were two advisors present, one a local and the second from another Society - oh, the pressure, the pressure!!!!

So, we were able to have a spirited though short discussion - short as I had an afternoon match.

Both ARs agreed that my actions were appropriate, one advisor stated that I had exceeded my authority and t'other stated that I was completely wrong - no team can be punished by a referee for the actions of spectators whether coaches or not.

And there is more ........

NM