Penalty for "A look"

[Taffy]

Localish derby today. Expecting it to be feisty and tight. I am keen to run a tight ship for the first part of the game. Spoken already to captains about everything being through them.

Yellow attacking in the 22. I award a penalty for an offence at the breakdown (as far as I can remember it was for hands in the ruck). As the ruck breaks up and the yellow players retreat (and they do so properly), one of the forwards throws his arms wide and gives me a look of astonishment and surprise. Without really thinking about it too much, I push the penalty ten metres further back as I decide this is dissent (although unspoken).

After the game, the very cheery forward asked me why I had done it. I explained my side of it and I then went on to say: "Probably a bit harsh really". He laughed and we agreed.

I'm not intending to lose any sleep over it, but would appreciate knowing how high on "the knob scale" this action was. Having said all that, it had the desired effect as we hardly had any problems after that!

But as always, appreciate some feedback from fellow refs.

 

[dave_clark]

was there any further dissent in the game? if not, sounds like a decent call.

(or you got lucky. either way, it worked!)

 

[Phil E]

Dissent doesn't have to be verbal.

 

[Ian_Cook]

Localish derby today. Expecting it to be feisty and tight. I am keen to run a tight ship for the first part of the game. Spoken already to captains about everything being through them.

Yellow attacking in the 22. I award a penalty for an offence at the breakdown (as far as I can remember it was for hands in the ruck). As the ruck breaks up and the yellow players retreat (and they do so properly), one of the forwards throws his arms wide and gives me a look of astonishment and surprise. Without really thinking about it too much, I push the penalty ten metres further back as I decide this is dissent (although unspoken).

After the game, the very cheery forward asked me why I had done it. I explained my side of it and I then went on to say: "Probably a bit harsh really". He laughed and we agreed.

I'm not intending to lose any sleep over it, but would appreciate knowing how high on "the knob scale" this action was. Having said all that, it had the desired effect as we hardly had any problems after that!

But as always, appreciate some feedback from fellow refs.

Good on you mate!! I wish elite refs would take a leaf from your book.

I am tired of seeing players waving their arms about like seagulls (especially at the breakdown), imploring the referee to give a PK for not releasing/not rolling away etc.

 

[The Fat]

I am tired of seeing players waving their arms about like seagulls (especially at the breakdown), imploring the referee to give a PK for not releasing/not rolling away etc.

This one always gets a word to the captain from me. As far as I'm concerned, waving your arms about with that pleading look is equal to having someone constantly yelling, "What about that sir?"

 

[FightOrFlight]

I always laugh at players who do that sort of thing. I will not usually advance PKs for it but it's usually because I relish being right and having people know that I am right and there is nothing they can do about it! epper:

When I have a situation where a player is doing a seagull impression looking for a PK I will give it if it is correct and tell him if he "wants to fly go play on the wing" or a personal triumph "you're really bringing new meaning to 'fly half'". I'll then remind him to leave it to me and pass it off.

It's a personal opinion but I usually would try and avoid marching 10 etc too early in a heated derby as if it is heated by nature I may end up covering a lot of ground to be consistent. It riles the players up I find and can often lead to some of their disdain for opponents transferring to you. I try and keep control by talking to the captains regularly and keeping them onside. I think if you go 10 in a heated game too early and do not attempt to talk it out it does not solve the problem you then have to escalate and you may well find yourself forced to give a soft red or double yellow. Marching 10 before you talk to a captain about dissent cuts you off and may make him harder to approach as it seems that your way has failed and you are crawling to him for help.

I often see refs get a bit of lip...ignore it...next one...go 10...tell the captain that there should be no more...have a little more...YC warning come out to the offending captain and then the opposition have 1 and the YC flies out for it. In reality you may have 1 team have 4 shots and the other have 1 and that one get a YC!

 

[menace]

To be honest I'm a bit ambivalent about this one.

Playing sport is emotional. I want players to have some passion and emotion about what they're playing, if they didn't then why play sport at all? I don't want them to be emotionless robots (think Ivan Lendl at tennis!). Provided they keep their emotions in check and don't go over the top then I typically don't mind if they have a natural reaction to what they see even if it differs from mine. So to be occasionally throwing the arms out without verbal dissent doesn't seem to over step the mark for me, but maybe I should reassess that?

If a PK is given for every 'arm wave' as dissent then Phibbs (perhaps all #9s for that matter) takes it to a new level - hed be pinged off the park with all his carry on!

 

[Browner]

So to be occasionally throwing the arms out without verbal dissent doesn't seem to over step the mark for me,

Kinda agree but the context is (as always) important, the player who approaches me, keeps waving or is very insistent with his arm waving can get sanctioned whereas the understated 'reaction' appeal is most often ignored.

 

[Jabba]

Junior game last year. The same defending scrum half threw his arms out without saying anything but the implication was that he was appealing that the feed wasn't straight. After the 3rd scrum, I advised him that if he did it again, he would be penalised. That stopped it dead.