[7's/10's] Penalty goal in 7s - place kick allowed?

[menace]

I think I know the answer, but have got myself confused because of what appears to be a contradiction in the law book.

Can you take a place kick for penalty goal in 7s?
I've not ever seen it and I think the answer is no because of this 7's variation.
[LAWS]21.3 How the penalty and free kicks are taken
Amend
(a)
Any player may take a penalty or free kick awarded for an infringement with any kind of kick: punt, drop kick but not a place kick. The ball may be kicked with any part of the leg from below the knee to the toe but not with the heel.[/LAWS]

But, there is no mention about deletion or changes to law 21.5. Ie

[LAWS]21.5 Scoring a goal from a penalty kick
(a)A penalty goal can be scored from a penalty kick.
(b)If the kicker indicates to the referee the intention to kick at goal, the kicker must kick at goal. Once the kicker has made the intention clear, there can be no change of the intention. The referee may enquire of the kicker as to the intention.
(c)If the kicker indicates to the referee the intent to kick at goal, the opposing team must stand still with their hands by their sides from the time the kicker starts to approach to kick until the ball is kicked.
(d)If the kicker has not indicated an intention to kick at goal but takes a drop kick and scores a goal, the goal stands.
(e)If the opposing team infringes while the kick is being taken but the kick at goal is successful, the goal stands. A further penalty is not awarded for the infringement.
(f)The kicker may place the ball directly on the ground or on sand, sawdust or a kicking tee approved by the Union.[/LAWS]

In particular f) seems to suggest they 'may' place it?
Why didn't IRB delete 21.5 f) as a 7's variation if they can't take a place kick?

Furthermore, does this mean that you can take a punt kick for a PK goal? (Whether 7s or 15's) where in the laws does it say it can't be a punt kick for scoring a penalty goal?

Ps. We've often said if it's not in the laws that you can't do something, then it is permitted. Either I'm missing something but it seems that taking a punt kick for a penalty goal it permitted??

 

[Phil E]

There are no place kicks in 7s.
That's it.

 

[menace]

Fair enough. I believe you. Pity IRB didn't then indicate the removal of 21.5 f. As part of the variations.

So what about a punt kick for a PK goal? Permitted or not? (I think 'not' but law doesn't seem to back that up?)

 

[Browner]

So what about a punt kick for a PK goal? Permitted or not? (I think 'not' but law doesn't seem to back that up?)

Hi menace, Not.
See...'Goal' definition. [LAWS]Goal: A player scores a goal by kicking the ball over an opponents’ crossbar and between the goal posts from the field of play, by a place kick or drop-kick. A goal cannot be scored from a kick-off, drop-out or free kick.[/LAWS]

Goals require place kick or drop kick, and the 7s variation excludes ' placing' so that leaves 'dropping' as the sole method of a goal.

 

[talbazar]

Does this mean that placing the ball on the ground before a quick tap and go is illegal in seven's? :deadhorse: :biggrin:

 

[Browner]

Does this mean that placing the ball on the ground before a quick tap and go is illegal in seven's? :deadhorse: :biggrin:

If you interpret a QT&G to mean the same as a 'kick at' Goal, then yes for you it would be.:shrug: :wow:

 

[Camquin]

But 21.3 is any penalty not just kicks at goal.
Putting the ball on the ground and kicking it is a place kick by the definitions.
So it is illegal in 7s and 10s

Now if you pulled someone up with it I feel your assessor may pull you up for lack of empathy.

 

[Dixie]

But 21.3 is any penalty not just kicks at goal.
Putting the ball on the ground and kicking it is a place kick by the definitions.
So it is illegal in 7s and 10s

Now if you pulled someone up with it I feel your assessor may pull you up for lack of empathy.

Plus 1. But this question of an assessor pulling you up for applying the laws - it irritates me. The iRB should sort their laws out. But until they do - referees have to make sense of the rubbish placed in front of them.

 

[menace]

Hi menace, Not.
See...'Goal' definition. [LAWS]Goal: A player scores a goal by kicking the ball over an opponents’ crossbar and between the goal posts from the field of play, by a place kick or drop-kick. A goal cannot be scored from a kick-off, drop-out or free kick.[/LAWS]

Goals require place kick or drop kick, and the 7s variation excludes ' placing' so that leaves 'dropping' as the sole method of a goal.

Thanks Browner....I looked and looked but not in the definitions. I knew it must of been there somewhere! I shouldn't have been looking that late at night cause I've turned into a pumpkin. :redface:
I don't even know why I was trying to prove something to myself that I already knew!