Penalty goal

great_captain

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Dear All,

I would like to ask you two questions about penalty goals. I have tried to find the answers in the rule book, but I couldn't.

1) The team have indicated the referee the intention to kick at goal. However, they decide to run with the ball or kick into touch (so, they don't kick at goal). What will the referee do? Can the kicker pass the ball to a teammate who will try a drop goal?

2) The team have indicated the referee the intention to kick at goal. The kicker legitimately kicks at goal. However, he kicks the ball so badly that it goes into touch. How will the game continue?

Thanks
 

Marc Wakeham


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Law 8. 20.
If the team indicates to the referee the intention to kick at goal, they must kick
at goal
. The intention to kick can be communicated to the referee or signalled
by the arrival of the kicking tee or sand, or when the player makes a mark on
the ground.

So:
1: The must kick at goal.
No sanction is specified but agains 8.21 there is Sanction : Kick is disallowed and a scrum is awarded. I would go for that one. Reasoning? 8.20 and 8.21 deal with the kick not being taken "properly" / "within the law".
2: Stuff happens play on if you think the kick was genuine.
 

great_captain

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Law 8. 20.
If the team indicates to the referee the intention to kick at goal, they must kick
at goal
. The intention to kick can be communicated to the referee or signalled
by the arrival of the kicking tee or sand, or when the player makes a mark on
the ground.

2: Stuff happens play on if you think the kick was genuine.
Genuine kick at goal... The ball goes into touch. Who will throw the ball?
 

didds

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Would this not then be an unsuccessful kick at goal, 22 drop out?
no - because the ball did not go dead in goal, it went into touch (the OP).

so its a lineout.

ISTR there appears to be some interpretation/guideline form years ago now that says a shanked but genuine attempt at goal that ends up in touch ends with the throw being given to the non kicking team .(see CR above also)


didds
 
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Mipper


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Makes sense doesn’t it?

if a kick at the posts is SO bad that it goes into touch, it doesn’t really deserve to be awarded the LO
 

crossref


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Makes sense doesn’t it?

if a kick at the posts is SO bad that it goes into touch, it doesn’t really deserve to be awarded the LO
but not supported by Law though?

All the scenarios in 18.8.c result in lineout to the kicking team.
 

Marc Wakeham


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It's a law clarification from the body that makes the law. That means it is supported in law.
 
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crossref


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It's a law clarification fro mthe body that makes the law. That means it is supported in law.
well, I think 'clarifications' are supposed to clear up anything ambiguous, rather than make new Law.
but in practice they do sometimes do the latter.

anyway, if it ever happens to me, I'll definitely follow the clarification!
 

Mipper


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I seem to recall that I have played in games (in the olden days) where you were allowed to kick penalties to touch from the ground. Although this is certainly in the days when you would not get the subsequent lineout.

I have never though seen a mis-kick at the posts that has been this bad. I note the laws state the ball bouncing off the posts and going into touch - I would be very interested to see this happen!
 

crossref


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I seem to recall that I have played in games (in the olden days) where you were allowed to kick penalties to touch from the ground. Although this is certainly in the days when you would not get the subsequent lineout.

I have never though seen a mis-kick at the posts that has been this bad. I note the laws state the ball bouncing off the posts and going into touch - I would be very interested to see this happen!
if you google - I think there are one or two examples -- (in v strong wind). Doubt you' d ever see it at grass roots level where people can't kick as hard and as high
 

Stu10

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@Mipper I remember playing a match when I was at school (probably around 1988), and an opposition player placed kicked directly to touch and it resulted in a scrum to our team... were "the olden days" before the mid 80's?

I've certainly played some games where the wind might take a kick across the face of the goal and into touch on the far side. In this instance, we seem to agree that the non-kicking team gets the throw-in, but I'm not sure where... if the ball went out on the full, would the lineout be where the ball crossed the plane of touch or in-line with the original penalty?
Law 20.8 says "The kicker may punt, drop-kick or place-kick (other than for touch) the ball."... therefore a place-kick is not a kick for touch, therefore should it be treated as per law 18.8.c, with the lineout being where the ball reaches the touchline (we've already established that we don't follow 18.8.c with regard to who throws in)?
 

Marc Wakeham


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well, I think 'clarifications' are supposed to clear up anything ambiguous, rather than make new Law.
but in practice they do sometimes do the latter.

anyway, if it ever happens to me, I'll definitely follow the clarification!
They are clearing it up by telling us how we should interpret the law. Its' only "new" to someone who did not share their interpretation.
 

smeagol


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Law clarification - back then it was 21.4d, now it's 20.8 that says you cannot place-kick for touch

It makes sense from a practical standpoint; the non-offending side shouldn't get a second bite at the apple if the kick goes wonky.
 

Stu10

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Law clarification - back then it was 21.4d, now it's 20.8 that says you cannot place-kick for touch

It makes sense from a practical standpoint; the non-offending side shouldn't get a second bite at the apple if the kick goes wonky.
Should they get the territorial advantage? Where should the lineout be?
 

smeagol


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Should they get the territorial advantage? Where should the lineout be?
If the ball sailed over the touch line from the post, IMO mark would be in line with the original penalty mark, unless they are kicking a helium ball from inside the defending 22m.

If it bounced in the FoP, mark would be where it went into touch.
 
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