Penalty Kick

Mipper


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let me rephrase the question

Given a penalty - if a player shows indication by action that they are going to kick the ball to touch but instead can he. Kick into the field of play without going for touch
2 There is no indication but player walks and kicks in field
You may be aware of this, but the player has no obligation to tell you as a ref, what he is going to do UNLESS he/she plans to kick at goal.
 

Decorily

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Clarification 2 of 2006 is probably the closest we come to getting an answer.
Dickie E is correct (ish).
Needless to say the clarification is not very clear and could do with a separate clarification to clarify the clarification, possibly then we may get some clarity on the clarification provided of course the clarification of the initial clarification was clear!
 

Not Kurt Weaver


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Clarification 2 of 2006 is probably the closest we come to getting an answer.
Dickie E is correct (ish).
I did not write this . It is from clarifications on Laws Of The Game. IMO Clarification 2 of 06 is N/A

The laws of rugby were restructured and simplified for the 2018 law book. Clarifications issued up to the end of 2017 reference the law structure at that time. Clarifications issued from 2018 onwards reference the simplified laws. Please select whether you wish to browse clarifications up to 2017 or from 2018 onward.
 

Marc Wakeham


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Here is the clarification (for clarity):


Clarification 2 2006​

Ruling in Law by the Designated Members of the Rugby Committee​



Clarification

2-2006

Union / HP Ref Manager

FFR

Law Reference

19,21

Date

10 January 2006

Request

Law 19.1 (e) stipulates: “Penalty kick. When a player kicks to touch from a penalty kick anywhere in the playing area, the throw in is taken from where the ball went into touch.”

Law 19.4 (Exception) has the following precision. “When a team takes a penalty kick, and the ball is kicked into touch, the throw in is taken by the player of the team who took the penalty kick. This applies whether the ball was kicked directly or indirectly into touch.”

Finally, Law 21.4 (d) requires for “kicking for touch. The kicker may punt or drop kick for touch but must not place kick for touch.”

Following a penalty kick and after the ball was kicked, the ball hits the goal post and goes into touch without having been touched by another player.
What decision should the referee give?


Ruling of the designated members of the Rugby Committee

If the penalty kick is for goal, then it is a lineout defending team to throw in.
Law 21.4(d).

If the penalty kick is for touch, therefore no place kick, then it is a lineout attacking team to throw in.


The lineout in either of these situations may not be closer than 5 metres from the goal line. Law 19.4 Exception.
 

Decorily

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I did not write this . It is from clarifications on Laws Of The Game. IMO Clarification 2 of 06 is N/A

The laws of rugby were restructured and simplified for the 2018 law book. Clarifications issued up to the end of 2017 reference the law structure at that time. Clarifications issued from 2018 onwards reference the simplified laws. Please select whether you wish to browse clarifications up to 2017 or from 2018 onward.

Laws may have been restructured and allegedly simplified but they were not changed.
 

Marc Wakeham


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It is pretty clear that you are not allowed to intentionally kick for touch via a place kick. BUT if a Kick at goal goes into touch off the posts (pussible) OR if it is sliced into touch (highly unlikely, so not specifically covered except by implication - Chopper was not at that meeting!) The defendig side get the throw.
If the kick is , in the referees opinion intentionally, to touch from a place kick then the sanction is as per the Law book. For me the clarification is pretty clear.
 

Marc Wakeham


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so you CAN place kick to touch?
No you can only place kick for goal. However, if such a kick goes wrong and UNINTENTIONALLY goes into touch the line out goes againt the kicker.
 

Not Kurt Weaver


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Laws may have been restructured and allegedly simplified but they were not changed.
Good point. The clarification has only different paragraph and line numbers when compared to current. Calrification could still apply
 

Not Kurt Weaver


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No you can only place kick for goal. However, if such a kick goes wrong and UNINTENTIONALLY goes into touch the line out goes againt the kicker.
I disagree, a place kick can remain of fop and play can continue. the only ban is that it cannot go to touch. I would also argue touch in goal and over dbl is also okay.
 

Marc Wakeham


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I disagree, a place kick can remain of fop and play can continue. the only ban is that it cannot go to touch. I would also argue touch in goal and over dbl is also okay.

World rugby CLEARLY disagrees with you:


Clarification 2 2006​

Ruling in Law by the Designated Members of the Rugby Committee​



Clarification

2-2006

Union / HP Ref Manager

FFR

Law Reference

19,21
Date

10 January 2006

Request

Law 19.1 (e) stipulates: “Penalty kick. When a player kicks to touch from a penalty kick anywhere in the playing area, the throw in is taken from where the ball went into touch.”

Law 19.4 (Exception) has the following precision. “When a team takes a penalty kick, and the ball is kicked into touch, the throw in is taken by the player of the team who took the penalty kick. This applies whether the ball was kicked directly or indirectly into touch.”

Finally, Law 21.4 (d) requires for “kicking for touch. The kicker may punt or drop kick for touch but must not place kick for touch.”

Following a penalty kick and after the ball was kicked, the ball hits the goal post and goes into touch without having been touched by another player.
What decision should the referee give?


Ruling of the designated members of the Rugby Committee

If the penalty kick is for goal, then it is a lineout defending team to throw in.
Law 21.4(d).
 

Not Kurt Weaver


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No you can only place kick for goal. However, if such a kick goes wrong and UNINTENTIONALLY goes into touch the line out goes againt the kicker.
My fault. i was referring to your first sentence . "No you can only place kick for goal." a team on their 22 or further away, could tee the ball up (with no hope of making a goal) and kick the ball towards the opponents goal line. the law does not prevent that. Not good tactically,
 

Marc Wakeham


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My fault. i was referring to your first sentence . "No you can only place kick for goal." a team on their 22 or further away, could tee the ball up (with no hope of making a goal) and kick the ball towards the opponents goal line. the law does not prevent that. Not good tactically,
That'd run the risk of the referee not buying it. A scrum inside their own 22 would be a sore punishment for such a"chopperesque" piece of nonsense
 

SimonSmith


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the kicker may punt, drop-kick or place-kick (other than for touch) the ball.

A place kick at goal that ends up in touch because eg wind is not a kick for touch. That would defy a clear reading of the law as written. The "for" carries the strong implication of intent.
 

didds

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then I'm lost.


wrt a place kick to goal theat ends up in touch ie what we are discussing, Dickie suggested
"If its a genuine shot and is blown into touch ( or bounces off post into touch) its a lineout throw to kicking team"

i.e. a place kick has gone to touch and is allowed.
 

didds

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So long as you clearly place kick AT GOAL
so what does that mean in reality.

Point at posts.
put ball on tee.
"slice" ball "badly", goes into touch, never even went close to going towards the posts.

how does anybody possibly tell?

ditto wind so strong.
Obvs bouncing off an upright and going into touch is pretty indicative of a kick at goal.
 
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