[In-goal] PK after the try - with a difference

[Ian_Cook]

Saw this while standing on the sideline watching a preseason club game last night....

Player does an Arlo* on the tryscorer after half time has expired, resulting in an immediate YC.

After the conversion, the referee blew for half time, but stated that he would award a PK to the opponents at the restart of the second half for the act of foul play after the try was scored.

Comments?


*For those unfamiliar with "Arlo", it is an act or foul play similar to this disgraceful bit of thuggery by Richard Loe (Aussies needn't watch - you will already know what this is)

Starting at 6:20

 

[Decorily]

I can understand the logic...but I think it is an error.

Edit. ..In your scenario should a penalty try have been awarded?

 

[Treadmore]

@Ian - seems a fair decision. We know the location is where the game would restart. And we know because time has expired that the "when" play restarts is at the start of the next half. There's no time caveats under Law 9 Foul Play, just has to be in playing enclosure. So seems fair enough to me to have penalty restart at start of second half.

 

[Decorily]

@Ian - seems a fair decision. We know the location is where the game would restart. And we know because time has expired that the "when" play restarts is at the start of the next half. There's no time caveats under Law 9 Foul Play, just has to be in playing enclosure. So seems fair enough to me to have penalty restart at start of second half.

Time may have expired as you say....but the half hadn't ended!

 

[Treadmore]

Time may have expired as you say....but the half hadn't ended!

Maybe but this is after a try has been scored, but ball is dead when infringment occurs. After try is scored ref allows time for conversion but not the penalty
as well.

That's how I read it

 

[Dickie E]

the only question I have is if this had occurred at the end of the 2nd half, what would the referee have done?

 

[Ian_Cook]

I can understand the logic...but I think it is an error.

Edit. ..In your scenario should a penalty try have been awarded?

It can't be a PT because it doesn't meet the criteria. A try had already been awarded so there was no foul play that prevented a probable try, nor was there any foul play that prevented the probable scoring of a try in a better position.

 

[Ian_Cook]

the only question I have is if this had occurred at the end of the 2nd half, what would the referee have done?

Yeah, that was my thought as well.

I think that is game over... the law allows for the PK at the next restart - there is a restart after half time, but not after full time.

 

[Decorily]

It can't be a PT because it doesn't meet the criteria. A try had already been awarded so there was no foul play that prevented a probable try, nor was there any foul play that prevented the probable scoring of a try in a better position.

OK. ..was wondering whether the try could possibly have been scored in a more advantageous position.

 

[Balones]

How is this for a left field idea. As the offence was when play had stopped why not let the non-offending side play a ‘joker’ and decide for themselves when to take the penalty. (On half way line of course.) The only constraint being that they can’t take it at a penalty when they have offended. We already give an option to a side as to where they can take a penalty at a repeat offence so why not introduced a degree of ‘when’?
Tongue firmly in cheek.

 

[Ciaran Trainor]

I think the penalty should be awarded in the fist half.
I guess this is another that needs clarifying. as if there is a howling gale blowing straight down the pitch, it could have bearing on when the penalty is taken and how you would chose to take it.

 

[crossref]

It's great question .

I don't think the half is over until the conversion has been taken.

So the foul play happened in the first half, so we restart immediately.

If it was the second half we do restart.

 

[chbg]

I've changed my mind - 5.7b "A half ends ... unless the referee awards a ... penalty." He has awarded a penalty, so the half continues after time has expired.

 

[Treadmore]

I've changed my mind - 5.7b "A half ends ... unless the referee awards a ... penalty." He has awarded a penalty, so the half continues after time has expired.

So in a case where the ball goes dead (ref has blown whistle, by definition), time has already expired, no advantage was being played, and so it's the end of the first half, but then we have the foul play and ref issues YC.

Do you still restart and continue first half?

How about if the foul play is not immediate after ball has gone dead? Say the foul play was between 2 opponents still on the pitch and rest are in the changing rooms already? Bring them all back on the pitch and restart?

 

[Decorily]

Say the foul play was between 2 opponents still on the pitch and rest are in the changing rooms already? Bring them all back on the pitch and restart?

No need to play silly buggers...keep the debate constructive!

 

[Decorily]

So in a case where the ball goes dead (ref has blown whistle, by definition), time has already expired, no advantage was being played, and so it's the end of the first half, but then we have the foul play and ref issues YC.

Do you still restart and continue first half?

It's not the end until the referee determines it so...irrelevant whether the ball is dead and time is expired!

 

[chbg]

So in a case where the ball goes dead (ref has blown whistle, by definition), time has already expired, no advantage was being played, and so it's the end of the first half, but then we have the foul play and ref issues YC.

Do you still restart and continue first half?

How about if the foul play is not immediate after ball has gone dead? Say the foul play was between 2 opponents still on the pitch and rest are in the changing rooms already? Bring them all back on the pitch and restart?

There is a difference between time being up and the end of the half. Once the referee declares that the half is ended, it is, surprisingly, ended. Until then, play out the penalties (and FKs and the conversion).

 

[timmad]

I've changed my mind - 5.7b "A half ends ... unless the referee awards a ... penalty." He has awarded a penalty, so the half continues after time has expired.

If we accept that, because a penalty has been awarded, play in the first half should continue after the conversion - what would be the location of the penalty?

 

[Dickie E]

No need to play silly buggers...keep the debate constructive!

Unlike ... it was a reasonable question by Treadmore.

 

[Decorily]

Unlike ... it was a reasonable question by Treadmore.

No disrespect intended to Treadmore.
Apologies if taken as so.

However it seems to me to be the equivalent to a fight breaking out in the bar after the game and asking should the referee bring players back on the pitch to deal with it! !

Edit....I'm sure Treadmore can respond for himself/herself!