[Law] PK knock on played by opponent within 10m of the mark...

[didds]

Had this query from a chum following his reffing a local U15s game yesterday (RFU land).

"Blue player takes quick tap penalty and then immediately knocks it forward. Green player who is not back 10m gathers ball. Penalty to blue for not retreating 10 or play on/scrum green? I awarded a penalty but suspect I might be wrong. Tbh I was caught unawares by the quick tap penalty.
Green player Just standing there scratching his arse or whatever. Ball came to him."

(This chum has just this week joined the London Society )

thoughts?

 

[ianh5979]

For me scrum green

 

[CrouchTPEngage]

Crucially, it didn't read like the Green player affected the KO or caused the KO in any way.
So For me. Knock-on so hand-out for KO-advantage to Green. Green the cock-up that advantage by playing the ball without retreating 10m so we come back fro the original KO. So scrum green.

 

[Zebra1922]

Agreed with above - the first offence was the knock on. Advantage to green, as now played in an offside position, no advantage, scrum green.

 

[Dickie E]

This is a good question.

Doesn't law 10.7.a.iv give us the answer?:

[LAWS]Other than under Law 10.4c, an offside player can be put onside when:

An opponent of that player:

Intentionally touches the ball without gaining possession of it.[/LAWS]

Play on?

 

[chbg]

That's in open play, not from a set piece.

 

[Dickie E]

That's in open play, not from a set piece.

so when does a set piece transition to open play?

And for the sake of discussion, lets say the Green player wasn't scratching his arse, but was actively retiring so that there is no doubt he was complying with law when the tap was take.

 

[Rich_NL]

So as soon as you take the PK, all players within 10m are onside and can challenge for the ball? Some mistake, surely?

 

[tim White]

Two offences; Knock on and not 10m. First offence (if other player retreating and not interfering with play) is knock on -so go with that. Everyone will be expecting you to, even the Blue team.

Side issue; This is another situation where I would rather we played on after a 'fumble' where no advantage gained.

 

[Stu10]

Did the actions of green cause the knock on by blue, ie approaching the blue player. If yes, then penalty 10m forward, if no then knock-on > scrum.

 

[Dickie E]

So as soon as you take the PK, all players within 10m are onside and can challenge for the ball? Some mistake, surely?

Yeah, nah. Law 20.13 prevents that:

[LAWS]Even if the penalty or free-kick is taken quickly and the kicker’s team is playing the ball, opposing players must keep retreating the necessary distance. They may not take part in the game until they have done so. [/LAWS]

So scrum is correct call unless Green had retreated 10 metres in which case it would be play on.