[Law] Pre binding

[lawsons]

You will often see a front row forward receiving the ball off a ruck and trundle forward a few yards before being tackled. Close to the line, you often see someone pre bind to him to help his momentum. Two on one. When does this scenario become dangerous such that you would blow up ? three players pre bound, 5, 7? any number ? If they got up a good pace as a group ?

These are players binding after he has received the ball, but before he has been tackled.

 

[ChrisR]

This a Flying Wedge without the context of the goal line.
I think it's an injury risk that won't get addressed until someone gets seriously hurt.

 

[Taff]

You will often see a front row forward receiving the ball off a ruck and trundle forward a few yards before being tackled. Close to the line, you often see someone pre bind to him to help his momentum. Two on one.

This a Flying Wedge without the context of the goal line. I think it's an injury risk that won't get addressed until someone gets seriously hurt.

If they're picking up a ball "off a ruck" they're hardly going to be shifting at speed.

If I'm being honest, I can't see why you think it's so dangerous.

 

[Not Kurt Weaver]

You will often see a front row forward receiving the ball off a ruck and trundle forward a few yards before being tackled. Close to the line, you often see someone pre bind to him to help his momentum. Two on one. When does this scenario become dangerous such that you would blow up ? three players pre bound, 5, 7? any number ? If they got up a good pace as a group ?

These are players binding after he has received the ball, but before he has been tackled.

This a Flying Wedge without the context of the goal line.
I think it's an injury risk that won't get addressed until someone gets seriously hurt.

I have been advised that a flying wedge requires 2 bound players to B/C, as per exact wording of law.

 

[Not Kurt Weaver]

‘Flying Wedge’. The type of attack known as a ‘Flying Wedge’ usually happens near the goal line, when the attacking team is awarded a penalty kick or free kick.
The kicker tap-kicks the ball and starts the attack, either by driving towards the goal line or by passing to a team-mate who drives forward. Immediately, team mates bind on each side of the ball carrier in a wedge formation. Often one or more of these team mates is in front of the ball carrier. A ‘Flying Wedge’ is illegal.

 

[ChrisR]

If they're picking up a ball "off a ruck" they're hardly going to be shifting at speed.

If I'm being honest, I can't see why you think it's so dangerous.

A prebound pick-n-go isn't but I don't think that is lawsons OP. A pitch to a runner, even tho not at full pace, with a bound on teammate can be problematic for the tackler. Not only does he have twice the mass to contend with but he has the added difficulty making a safe tackle with his head behind the BC's body.

 

[crossref]

but he has the added difficulty making a safe tackle with his head behind the BC's body.

to me that's the point : if there is a team mate on both sides it becomes impossible to tackle the ball carrier safely. There's no where for your head to go.

 

[OB..]

‘Flying Wedge’. The type of attack known as a ‘Flying Wedge’ usually happens near the goal line, when the attacking team is awarded a penalty kick or free kick.
The kicker tap-kicks the ball and starts the attack, either by driving towards the goal line or by passing to a team-mate who drives forward. Immediately, team mates bind on each side of the ball carrier in a wedge formation. Often one or more of these team mates is in front of the ball carrier. A ‘Flying Wedge’ is illegal.

We need to be clear that this paragraph is illustrative, not definitive.

 

[Not Kurt Weaver]

We need to be clear that this paragraph is illustrative, not definitive.

Yes indeed, we also have to identify this infraction as dangerous play not a flying wedge unless criteria are met.

 

[lawsons]

We need to be clear that this paragraph is illustrative, not definitive.

ok, so three people in a wedge is not allowed. That's good.

Transfer that to a linnet, ball catcher drops to the ground, defending side don't compete and correctly step to the side. Ball carrier keeps the ball to the front.

Do we have to say " only one to bind !" ?

 

[RobLev]

ok, so three people in a wedge is not allowed. That's good.

Transfer that to a linnet, ball catcher drops to the ground, defending side don't compete and correctly step to the side. Ball carrier keeps the ball to the front.

Do we have to say " only one to bind !" ?

Why bind at all? Why not just run with the b****y thing?

 

[OB..]

ok, so three people in a wedge is not allowed. That's good.

My point was that the law is not trying to make a hard and fast definition in this case. The referee needs to judge if a tactic of this type is in fact dangerous. The presumption is that one which fits the example will be dangerous, but there are other possibilities.

 

[didds]

‘Flying Wedge’. The type of attack known as a ‘Flying Wedge’ usually happens near the goal line, when the attacking team is awarded a penalty kick or free kick.
The kicker tap-kicks the ball and starts the attack, either by driving towards the goal line or by passing to a team-mate who drives forward. Immediately, team mates bind on each side of the ball carrier in a wedge formation. Often one or more of these team mates is in front of the ball carrier. A ‘Flying Wedge’ is illegal.

Abnd in which case obstruction is occurring anyway?

didds

 

[ChrisR]

Obstruction? Don't think so unless the binder is in front of the BC. And that hasn't been the case.

In deference to Not Kurt Weaver, Esq. I will retract my reference to Flying Wedge.

I don't like pre-binding being ruled 'dangerous' as it would be so arbitrary. I'd rather see it outlawed.

 

[beckett50]

The Law also uses the word mates, as in plural, more than one.

IMO one bound on, as long as he is to his rear and not obstructing the ball or the ball carrier - thereby preventing fair contest for the ball - there is no issue. As has been said, this usually close to a contact area and the players are not at full speed.

 

[didds]

Obstruction? Don't think so unless the binder is in front of the BC. And that hasn't been the case.

I was commenting on NKW's post where his quote from the laws included

"Often one or more of these team mates is in front of the ball carrier. A ‘Flying Wedge’ is illegal."

If the team mate is in front of the ball carrier then he is obstructing/offside - take your pick.

didds

 

[RobLev]

I was commenting on NKW's post where his quote from the laws included

"Often one or more of these team mates is in front of the ball carrier. A ‘Flying Wedge’ is illegal."

If the team mate is in front of the ball carrier then he is obstructing/offside - take your pick.

didds

...and if he's behind him, he is equally obstructing - 10.1(c):

[LAWS]Blocking the tackler. A player must not intentionally move or stand in a position that prevents an opponent from tackling a ball carrier.[/LAWS]

 

[Ciaran Trainor]

I think pre binding in open play should be outlawed, it's as simple as that.
Same as the lifting binder to field kicks.
The game is supposed to be about fair contests and these scenarios are clearly not fair contests.

 

[OB..]

Same as the lifting binder to field kicks.
The game is supposed to be about fair contests and these scenarios are clearly not fair contests.

As I have pointed out before, if the defender is obliged to use only his own resources to jump for the ball, a running attacker will be able to jump higher. That isn't fair either. However a team that kicks the ball away should not also have the advantage in re-gathering it.

It is worth noting that scrums and lineouts are not fair either.Indeed passing isn't fair because you preferentially pass to a team-mate. Fairness is not the same as absolute equality.