Premiership final

OB..


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OB you are asking the wrong question .. you ask what is the best way to determine the winner of a league

The real question is .. what is the best format for the top tier professional rugby format?

And I think the answer is . Some kind of round robin out of which the top group play a couple of knock out rounds
I am pointing out that straightforward league systems and knockout systems do not fit well together because the requirements for success are different.

Apparently they are happy with it in Australia. :shrug:
 

crossref


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I am pointing out that straightforward league systems and knockout systems do not fit well together because the requirements for success are different.

Apparently they are happy with it in Australia. :shrug:

Of course our system is neither a straighforward league nor a straightforward knockout - it's a hybirid

It's neither a marathon nor a sprint, it's a duathlon
 

TigerCraig


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I am pointing out that straightforward league systems and knockout systems do not fit well together because the requirements for success are different.

Apparently they are happy with it in Australia. :shrug:

Its just what we are used to. Making the finals and peaking at the right time is the goal

I played in a soccer league a few years back where they made a big deal out of first-past-the post (which we won) and tried to play down the finals series (we lost the grand final) - I think because foreign born people took over in the administration.

We got a bigger trophy and nicer medals that the team that just beat us, but we were all gutted. It just felt wrong being given medals after losing the last game of the year.
 

Dickie E


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Its just what we are used to. Making the finals and peaking at the right time is the goal

I played in a soccer league a few years back where they made a big deal out of first-past-the post (which we won) and tried to play down the finals series (we lost the grand final) - I think because foreign born people took over in the administration.

We got a bigger trophy and nicer medals that the team that just beat us, but we were all gutted. It just felt wrong being given medals after losing the last game of the year.

and of course with a league system, the winner can be decided weeks before the end of the season. Not with a bang but a whimper.

I'm in a super rugby tipping comp. The leader is now so far ahead everyone is starting to lose interest weeks before the season ends.
 

TigerCraig


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and of course with a league system, the winner can be decided weeks before the end of the season. Not with a bang but a whimper.

I'm in a super rugby tipping comp. The leader is now so far ahead everyone is starting to lose interest weeks before the season ends.

A few years back my son missed out on a junior cricket premiership because they did first past the post due to not having enough spare weeks to fit in finals before footy took over the grounds.

His team had their game against the bottom team (who everyone else had flogged) washed out so they shared the points. Due to that the second placed team, whose game didn't get washed out and they won, leapfrogged them. Now, they may still have lost in a final but at least they could have gone down fighting

Luckily they won the next year, and then 3 out of the next 4 years in the seniors comp
 

Marc Wakeham


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Well not playing postponed games is daft.
 

TigerCraig


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Well not playing postponed games is daft.

When would you play them?

Seniors rugby has 2 spare weekends built in but juniors dont, and no cricket comps have spare weeks

For amateur sports there is maybe 2 weeks gap between winter and summer sport ground allocations
 
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Marc Wakeham


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Well the rest of the world manages it. Not sure why it is beyond the ARU to do it. What would you do if you had our wether?
 

TigerCraig


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Well the rest of the world manages it. Not sure why it is beyond the ARU to do it. What would you do if you had our wether?

Its not the ARU, they have nothing to do with grassroots sport. Its the fact that mist grassroots sport is played on council owned parks and shared between multiple sports.
 

Marc Wakeham


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Its not the ARU, they have nothing to do with grassroots sport. Its the fact that mist grassroots sport is played on council owned parks and shared between multiple sports.

Ok: Substitute Autralians for ARU.

it was cricket.

Kids, so one day? If so, Same principle applies (3 /4 /5 days stuff does bring special problems but then cricket is an odd sport anyway - and I played it for 30 years).

When you plan a league you allow time for postponments etc. It's basic planning.
 

TigerCraig


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Ok: Substitute Autralians for ARU.



Kids, so one day? If so, Same principle applies (3 /4 /5 days stuff does bring special problems but then cricket is an odd sport anyway - and I played it for 30 years).

When you plan a league you allow time for postponments etc. It's basic planning.
Ok, to give you an idea. Council comes out and says Smith Park is allocated as follows. Every saturday from 1 April to 31 August to Rugby League, every Sunday in the same period to Rugby Union. League can train Monday and Wednesday nights, union can have Tues and Thurs. Ground will be unavailable for use from 1 September to 15 September. Then Cricket can have it until 15 March after which it is unavailable until 1 April.

Council also reserve the right to close the park at any time uf we feel the conditions may cause damage
 

Dickie E


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Kids, so one day? If so, Same principle applies (3 /4 /5 days stuff does bring special problems but then cricket is an odd sport anyway - and I played it for 30 years).

When you plan a league you allow time for postponments etc. It's basic planning.

Ok. So you've got a 12 match season, build in 2 rain days, with semi finals in week 15 and grand final in week 16. Grounds all booked, umpires arranged, etc.

Then it doesn't rain. So do you move finals ahead 2 weeks or give kids a 2 week break?

Or it rains at 1 ground but not at others. What happens then?
 

crossref


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In our merit tables there are slip weeks built in , ie empty weeks where postponed games can replayed

But there are always gaps
 

TigerCraig


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In our merit tables there are slip weeks built in , ie empty weeks where postponed games can replayed

But there are always gaps

As I said, seniors have a couple of spare weeks (eg this weekend being a long weekend is spare for Sydney suburban), but it cant happen in juniors as school hols hace to be factored in as well
 

Marc Wakeham


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Ok. So you've got a 12 match season, build in 2 rain days, with semi finals in week 15 and grand final in week 16. Grounds all booked, umpires arranged, etc.

Then it doesn't rain. So do you move finals ahead 2 weeks or give kids a 2 week break?

Or it rains at 1 ground but not at others. What happens then?

So how come the rest of the world manages to cope? We manage perfectly well. To start with. Get rigd of the semis and the final and that is two free weeks! It really is not that hard to plan.
 

Marc Wakeham


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Ok, to give you an idea. Council comes out and says Smith Park is allocated as follows. Every saturday from 1 April to 31 August to Rugby League, every Sunday in the same period to Rugby Union. League can train Monday and Wednesday nights, union can have Tues and Thurs. Ground will be unavailable for use from 1 September to 15 September. Then Cricket can have it until 15 March after which it is unavailable until 1 April.

Council also reserve the right to close the park at any time uf we feel the conditions may cause damage


Funilly enough, we too have council parks and we have to book pitches on them as well. The council can close the parks when they wish. Funny how the Brits can cope. We are a small island and we can manage our space to handle replayed games. Odd that it is beyound the Aussie system
 

TigerCraig


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Funilly enough, we too have council parks and we have to book pitches on them as well. The council can close the parks when they wish. Funny how the Brits can cope. We are a small island and we can manage our space to handle replayed games. Odd that it is beyound the Aussie system

Ok, but when do the replays happen? Midweek? Play sat and sun?

Rugby has access to the grounds for 24 weeks max. There are in most junior comps 14 games. No games on Easter, Queens birthday long weekend in June (state championships are on then) or the middle week of school hols. So that leaves 6 weeks. Generally need 2-3 weeks for preseason training and practice/grading games. Then 2 weeks for end of season finals (and getting rid of them is not an option, better to just abandon a meaningless round 9 game).

You will never understand our loves of fixed leagues and finals, we will never understand your loves of first past the post, promotion/relegation and cups
 
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