Premiership relegation set to be suspended

[Phil E]

Premiership relegation set to be suspended for 4 years and top flight to expand to 14 clubs - if new club (eg Ealing) are willing to pay for shares - @MailSport story.--

So...Ealing and Pirates then? :wink:

 

[Balones]

Somebody at the RFU has got worried by the Championship results so far.

 

[Phil E]

The article says Saracens will get promoted plus maybe one other.
What happens if Sarries don't finish top? They got relegated on points, how can they be automatically promoted?

Something is rotten in the state of Denmark

 

[Lee Lifeson-Peart]

Lets face it - the RFU/Premiership Rugby or some other quasi governing body have wanted to pull up the drawbridge for years. It was always the likes of Rotherham/Leeds getting promoted or Northampton or Bristol or Saracens getting relegated that stopped them doing it as at any one time at least one of the "chosen few" weren't where they needed to be.

Teams like Worcester/Exeter managed to buy their way to the top table and stay there which is commendable and if you had to pick a Premiership 14, twenty years ago it wouldn't look like it does now I suspect - nearly but not quite.

That said if that's the case what now for the Doncasters of this world who've flirted with the top of the Championship for the last 10 years or so?

I suspect it's perhaps a different story at each club. Doncaster's finance always came from two main benefactors who I assume would be happy to keep chugging along in the Championship ad infinitum. Who knows?

 

[crossref]

Other factors
The premiership is owned by 13 clubs so it makes no sense having a league of 12

Pro 14 and the French league have 14 members so it will help with calendar synchronisation if premiership does as well

Saracens will win the championship !

Ealing seems to be the 14th but with Quins and LI that's a very SW London oriented league

 

[Camquin]

They may determine that Saracens are the only side that can be promoted due to the others not havinga suitable grounds.

Of course those condition will not include playing surface Sandy or should that be Muddy Park and the Rc being the worst offenders, while Tigers played for years on a pitch that did not meet World Rugby Minimum size for internationals.

 

[didds]

Ealing seems to be the 14th but with Quins and LI that's a very SW London oriented league

Is that just indicative possibly of the "big money" ( to bankroll a club ) being centred in the SE/London environs?

 

[Camquin]

There are a lot of clubs in South West London due to the area being mainly market gardens which were losing business to produce arriving in London by train. So there was land that could be bought by the new clubs, close enough to the city to get to by commuter train. Which is why Richmond, Scottish, Welsh, Irish, Quins, Rosslyn Park and many other are all withing a drop kick of one another.

 

[crossref]

There are a lot of clubs in South West London due to the area being mainly market gardens which were losing business to produce arriving in London by train. So there was land that could be bought by the new clubs, close enough to the city to get to by commuter train. Which is why Richmond, Scottish, Welsh, Irish, Quins, Rosslyn Park and many other are all withing a drop kick of one another.

and, indeed, the RFU!

no doubt also the reason that lots of corporate sports and social clubs are/were in SW london

 

[Camquin]

The three most recent clubs to join the Premiership are Bristol, Exeter and Worcester.
Wasps have moved from London to Coventry.
The other clubs that have played top flight rugby this millenia are Leeds, Rotherham and London Welsh.

If you look at the top level of Hockey, the clubs are predominantly in South West London or just into Surrey: Wimbledon, Surbiton, Addlestone, Oxted, Hamstead and East Grinstead in Sussex plus Holcombe in Kent. Only Beeston and three university sides - Exeter, Durham and Manchester are not in the South East.

 

[OB..]

[...]
The premiership is owned by 13 clubs [...]

Can somebody tell me how that came about?

Since the National Leagues were first formed, only Bath, Wasps Gloucester, and Leicester have never been relegated from the top division. Original members not now in the Premiership were Orrell, Nottingham, Moseley, Waterloo, and Coventry.

 

[Phil E]

Can somebody tell me how that came about?

Since the National Leagues were first formed, only Bath, Wasps Gloucester, and Leicester have never been relegated from the top division. Original members not now in the Premiership were Orrell, Nottingham, Moseley, Waterloo, and Coventry.

If its anything like the Football Premiership (and I suspect it uses the same model), it was formed and one share was issued to each club, giving them equal voting rights. Premier League Ltd is owned by the clubs and manages the game on their behalf. When a club is relegated they relinquish their one share and it is given to a promoted club.

 

[didds]

so who has the 13th share? EPL themselves as a ltd company or similar?

 

[crossref]

so who has the 13th share? EPL themselves as a ltd company or similar?

the Premiership is owned by the 12 clubs currently in it + Saracens

correction

Premiership Rugby is owned 73% by our stakeholder clubs and 27% by CVC Capital Partners .

https://www.premiershiprugby.com/ab...p Rugby is owned 73,sport of rugby in England.

I can't find it online - but I am very sure the stakeholder clubs number 13 - the 12 currently in the premiership, plus Sarries

 

[OB..]

I remember being surprised to find that London Irish were included after they had been relegated.

 

[Flish]

I don’t know if it’s changed, but there’s multiple share types, with options to increase certain shares based on your length in the premiership (which in turn affects your revenue), and options to purchase relegated clubs shares if they don’t bounce back - this article is about External buying Leeds shares 10 years back and goes into some detail - Exeter Chiefs pay about £5m for Leeds Premiership share
https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/rugby-union/19785431

 

[KoolFork]

It has changed a bit with CVC. Premiership Rugby is owned by a limited liability partnership, Premier Rugby Holdings LLP, partnership number OC426599. CVC's share is owned through Cobalto UK BidCo Limited (directors include David Wells and Luke Jagoe who both work for CVC). The Premiership club's share is held via PRL Investor Limited.

Interestingly, both Cobalto UK BidCo Limited and PRL Investor Limited are shown as controlling more than 25%, but not over 50%, of the votes of Premier Rugby Holdings LLP which suggests that voting rights are different to ownership rights where CVC is generally referred to having a 27% stake.

Premier Rugby Holdings LLP accounts are also showing as overdue which surprised me.

There are now 3 classes of share in PRL Investor Limited - A, B and P. I imagine the A and P are similar to the old A and P classes. This information is dated March 19, 2020, ie before Sarries relegation.

All current premiership clubs plus Sarries have 4m P shares. These are the permanent or perpetual shares which relegated clubs used to retain if they bounce back within one season. Not sure how a promoted club is supposed to buy these (and the attached income) if a different club is relegated each season and they bounce back the next, ie no single club is relegated for two consecutive seasons. The cards seem firmly stacked against championship clubs without very deep pockets as we saw with London Welsh. I imagine there'd be a reshuffle if Rugby switched to a 14 team format.

Most clubs now have 2m A shares. Bristol has 500,000 and Irish 1,750,000 so there is clearly a mechanism to reward longevity in the Premiership. Would this survive a 14 team format?

The B shares are new. Anyone know what these are for? All 13 clubs have 2m, apart from Newcastle who have none.

 

[crossref]

Great post
Thanks

 

[Phil E]

So if Sarries don't get promoted do they have to relinquish their shares?

 

[Flish]

So if Sarries don't get promoted do they have to relinquish their shares?

I think it’s more there’s an opportunity for someone to buy if they want, eg Bristol or Irish