presentation at the MW agm

[ddjamo]

well...I am presenting at our territory's agm. "refereeing trouble spots." my main focus is on recognizing issues at the scrum based on how they shape and upon "set."

I personally want to thank george clancy - he's a referee "how not to" every time he's out...so the france v wales match is great.

my second focus is on the fabled "counter ruck." how/why/what happens etc...we all know that when all this secondary rucking starts it's never real "clean" and if the ball doesn't come quick we as refs end up with a mess or a pk.

I will gladly share my insight and presentation with all of you if wanted. also, if any of you have vid clips you can share - please let me know. not full matches. the breakdown, scrums and maybe some good mauls.

 

[DrSTU]

Counter ruck usually guarantees a penalty for the counter-rucking team due to the changing offside line for the defending team!

This got shot down on the "none-USA" forum when I posted it last but it's a great example of counter-mauling and where you should be positioned.

http://www.scrrs.net/resources/video-example-referee-positioning-during-a-maul/

Original is on Ed Todd's vimeo.

 

[ddjamo]

what I'm finding the more I think about past matches and as I watch matches online is that the side that counter-rucks is usually pissed off because the other side sealed off the contest. I can't prove this and don't have exact stats but if you keep an eye out you will see that the ref usually misses the first infringement which causes slow ball, etc, etc

added: my internet is slow here in the keys...can't get that to load stu....thanks...will check it out. with the maul I was looking for examples where the referee does/does not recognize what the mauling side is trying to accomplish and prevents/manages incorrectly....if you guys can think of anything like that - please let me know.

 

[SimonSmith]

I'd like the deck.

One of the things I'm seeing more and more - and it might just be me:
Tackle.
Tackler buggers off.
tackled lies there, assuming his team will win the ruck.
Ruh roh. Bad assumption.
And now he's lying there and the counter ruckers are thinking 'should I? Should I?'

Ping.

 

[ddjamo]

I'd like the deck.

One of the things I'm seeing more and more - and it might just be me:
Tackle.
Tackler buggers off.
tackled lies there, assuming his team will win the ruck.
Ruh roh. Bad assumption.
And now he's lying there and the counter ruckers are thinking 'should I? Should I?'

Ping.

that's not just north america. I did a college playoff match a couple years ago and gvsu had this english flanker that was bad ass. tough, defended well, ran hard....but one time he was tackled - no support - above happens...I am literally touching hiim and trying to get him out sans pulling him myself....WAY too much time so finally ping him. he goes crazy. after the match his father used the food line as an excuse to approach me and started in how that must be an american law and he's never seen it called, etc, etc...I was astonished by him honestly thinking he was correct. even when I showed him the good book he claimed it's a law not used in the UK.

 

[woody]

Counter ruck usually guarantees a penalty for the counter-rucking team due to the changing offside line for the defending team!

This got shot down on the "none-USA" forum when I posted it last but it's a great example of counter-mauling and where you should be positioned.

http://www.scrrs.net/resources/video-example-referee-positioning-during-a-maul/

Original is on Ed Todd's vimeo.

It's nice to see the analysis. Maybe it is better at your higher levels but I find the mauling skills atrocious. At almost every one there is either side entry or the non-participating players line up offside.

 

[DrSTU]

Woody fear not. In OMBAC v Santa Monica this weekend I had the great situation where 2 SM players set up a maul near their goal line (OMBAC on attack from line out). OMBAC tried to drive to the right but the 2 SM players remained bound to the ball carrier and drove him forward out to the left hand side of the maul whilst his team mates went right. Left us with the visually unappealing scenario of 2 SM players trying to rip the ball off the OMBAC player who decided that going to ground was a good idea! (No tackle so no need to release).

Aside from that there was some great skill on show.

It's nice to see the analysis. Maybe it is better at your higher levels but I find the mauling skills atrocious. At almost every one there is either side entry or the non-participating players line up offside.

 

[ddjamo]

stu...I gave that example (and I agree with you 100%) and had the entire rugby community thinking that I didn't know how to manage the tackle assist. I agree that when a player realizes that he's going to lose the tug of war and goes to ground - no release needed by the players on their feet. even a few months ago someone mentioned my bringing that up at a national event....I agree but prepare to be vilified if you do.

 

[ddjamo]

http://vimeo.com/user3431494

"north" 1-11

here are the clips I used for my presentation and below is the handout...it was discussion/prompting based....if there is interest to use it or questions - feel free to ask.
----------------------------
Refereeing Trouble Spots – The Scrum
02/23/2013

Sample questions to consider:
1 What do you see? PK? FK? Was the referee correct? Was he incorrect? Why?
2 Was the PK or FK punitive or preventative? Did it work? Is the referee’s game plan/standard obvious? Are the players understanding what he wants?
3 How did one side adjust due to the referee’s management or lack of? Did one side adjust to the other side’s cheating and getting away with it?
4 Did the referee’s management make the scrums better?
5 Does the scrum look different when one side has the put in vs the other? Stability? Engagement?
6 Do you think “good enough” works? Did the players pick up on the referee’s weakness and try to exploit it?
7 Is the referee “reacting” or setting a strict standard?

 

[DrSTU]

wow, just wow. He's elite!

http://vimeo.com/user3431494

"north" 1-11

here are the clips I used for my presentation and below is the handout...it was discussion/prompting based....if there is interest to use it or questions - feel free to ask.
----------------------------
Refereeing Trouble Spots – The Scrum
02/23/2013

Sample questions to consider:
1 What do you see? PK? FK? Was the referee correct? Was he incorrect? Why?
2 Was the PK or FK punitive or preventative? Did it work? Is the referee’s game plan/standard obvious? Are the players understanding what he wants?
3 How did one side adjust due to the referee’s management or lack of? Did one side adjust to the other side’s cheating and getting away with it?
4 Did the referee’s management make the scrums better?
5 Does the scrum look different when one side has the put in vs the other? Stability? Engagement?
6 Do you think “good enough” works? Did the players pick up on the referee’s weakness and try to exploit it?
7 Is the referee “reacting” or setting a strict standard?

 

[ddjamo]

elite like nick?

 

[SimonSmith]

If I watch that video, is my head going to explode?

 

[ddjamo]

probably. 11 scrums

 

[DrSTU]

If you want to see someone take no action on continual scrum infringements that are so blatant even I would penalise them!

If I watch that video, is my head going to explode?

 

[SimonSmith]

Now I want to. Just for the badness

 

[Nihil RFU]

Sloppy, sloppy scrummaging by players who should know better. It's easy to criticize the ref (scrummaging is obviously not his strength), but you can see the typical crap going on by a team weak in the scrums. (Pull crap on the side opposite the ref.) Early pushing, failure to bind, players popping up...

If I knew how to stop this crap, I'd share my insights for the edification of the company. Unfortunately, I'm no better off than this poor schmuck. It's no secret that teams create a game plan around the referees at this level, not unlike hockey.

 

[ddjamo]

here you guys go....not sure how well it comes across via vid but if you get anything out of it let me know...

http://vimeo.com/60619367

I'm doing this workshop at ORRS training in toronto this saturday too...hope to see many of you there....

 

[Reindeer Flotilla]

The camera work is EXCELLENT

 

[barker14610]

The camera work is good. Did you not see this: A graduate-level course on scrum management. Michigan Rugby Referee Society chair and Midwest official Dave Jameson presents. Graduate courses are always top notch.

 

[ddjamo]

I'm guessing that RF is the cameraman...