Punching fighting. If punches miss, is that not a red then ?

[Blackberry]

Is there an accepted scale of sanctions for blows (punch to the body, punch to the face, punch to the head etc) or is decided by at the ref's interpretation of the event?

 

[Browner]

counsel for the ambulance chaser: So - you saw Mr X punch a player on Mr A's team No, I saw two players involved in a fracas, the cause of which hadn't been seen by me. , but you did not send him off warning that if he did it again he'd would be dismissed on that occassion. Yes, In accordance with the laws of the game, I issued him a caution My client's jaw was broken in 4 places 2 minutes later when Mr. X punched him. Can you explain to the court how your actions at the first punch did not contribute to my clients injuries and subsequent loss of income. I expected my caution to have been heeded, as cautioning is one of a range of bona-fide game calming tools used by referees at their SOLE judgement [Law 6.A.4.[a] and I was surprised when it didn't have the desired effect, because often it does.



Counsel~:Because it seems to me that had you had dismissed such a violent individual the fist time, the second punch could not have occurred.

Browner: errrr Clearly that outcome would have existed, but the laws of rugby do not force referees to dismiss all players guilty of foul play purely as a preventative measure against repeat offences, in actual fact law 10.5is so written to deal with second cautionable offences, therefore it's logical to conclude the that law makers of rugby expect 2nd cautionable offences to exist, & I was mandated to use my judgement. You, Mr Counsel may have the opinion that I made a mistake, but that remains merely an opinion, & equally I might consider [whilst you might disagree] that, your parents also made one !

etc.

Why should a player that has already displayed direct violence towards another be given a chance? context, & re-education this isn't the same as a crooked feed!

didds

 

[didds]

ah - gotcha!

an affray being different to a punch seen landed? ie you saw no punch landed in the affray?

didds

 

[Daftmedic]

If it pleases the court may I bring your attention to the medical report.
First power point slide of victims face bruised.
2nd power point slide plane X-Ray with lateral and and plane view.
3rd power point with CT scan showing numerous fractures.
4th showing 3d MRI of said fractures.
5th post op forensic x-ray and plain picture showing more bruises because let's be honest maxi facial surgery is brutal.

Barrister then ask directly to said referee, "If the accused was not on the pitch participating could this horrific injury be of avoided.

Referee: Well erm it's that my descision.

Defendents barrister interrupts. " simple yes or no answer will do, and can you please record that the good gentleman admitted it was his descision.

You want the truth?

You can't handle the truth!!

 

[didds]

re-education can be done in the bar and the tribunal. whey are you going to allow an obviously violent player the opportunity to hit somebody else? except that you hope he won;t after a jolly stern ticking off.?

didds

 

[Browner]

If it pleases the court may I bring your attention to the medical report.
First power point slide of victims face bruised.
2nd power point slide plane X-Ray with lateral and and plane view.
3rd power point with CT scan showing numerous fractures.
4th showing 3d MRI of said fractures.
5th post op forensic x-ray and plain picture showing more bruises because let's be honest maxi facial surgery is brutal.

Barrister then ask directly to said referee, "If the accused was not on the pitch participating could this horrific injury be of avoided.

Referee: Sorry, I don't understand what you mean when you say "be of avoided" plus... when you say avoided , do you mean sidestepped or dodged or averted? or.... I don't agree with your classification of "Horrific" it isn't causing me horror.

Defendents barrister interrupts. " simple yes or no answer will do, and can you please record that the good gentleman admitted it was his descision. No I didn't, I said i'm mandated to use my judgement, stop misquoting me Good Sir.

You want the truth?

You can't handle the truth!!

Truth ...... that which is true or in accordance with fact or reality .......... the FACT IS 'admonishment' is permissible under the laws of the game that I am refereeing.

 

[Ian_Cook]

IMO, the Law does not recognise a "swing-and-a-miss" as a punch. The strike has to land

[LAWS]10.4 DANGEROUS PLAY AND MISCONDUCT
(a) Punching or striking. A player must not strike an opponent with the fist or arm, including
the elbow, shoulder, head or knee(s).
Sanction: Penalty kick[/LAWS]

So no RC, however, I think it ought to be, and it would be relatively easy for the iRB to fix this.

10.4 DANGEROUS PLAY AND MISCONDUCT
(a) Punching or striking. A player must not strike, or attempt to strike, an opponent with the fist or arm, including
the elbow, shoulder, head or knee(s).
Sanction: Penalty kick

 

[Daftmedic]

We could have these for the Sinbin.

 

[Browner]

IMO, the Law does not recognise a "swing-and-a-miss" as a punch. The strike has to land

[LAWS]10.4 DANGEROUS PLAY AND MISCONDUCT
(a) Punching or striking. A player must not strike an opponent with the fist or arm, including
the elbow, shoulder, head or knee(s).
Sanction: Penalty kick[/LAWS]

So no RC, however, I think it ought to be, and it would be relatively easy for the iRB to fix this.

10.4 DANGEROUS PLAY AND MISCONDUCT
(a) Punching or striking. A player must not strike, or attempt to strike, an opponent with the fist or arm, including
the elbow, shoulder, head or knee(s).
Sanction: Penalty kick

IMO 'attempting' would make the subjectivity around these subjects even more difficult to referee.

 

[damo]

In criminal law, at least in these here parts, an attempted offence attracts precisely half the maximum sentence of an actual offence.

I tend to go with that.

 

[didds]

what - 2 weeks ban rather than 4 then ? ;-)

didds

 

[damo]

what - 2 weeks ban rather than 4 then ? ;-)

didds

Possibly, but I was going more for the idea that a YC more often fits the crime of attempted punching than a RC does.

I think it always depends upon the facts of the incident. One-size-fits-all pronouncements are not the best way to go imo.