Put in to the scrum

oldman


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A friend from the Midlands phoned me to ask about this.
For some reason best known to himself his teams scrum half decided to put the ball into a scrum on the tight head side. The referee insisted he do this for the rest of the game.
Having read the law I believe it only applies to the scrum in progress, nowhere does it say he decides for the whole game.
Help please my credibility as an ex referee is at stake.
 

Flish


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That's my interpretation, ie you can't change your mind in the middle of a specific scrum
 

Flish


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Yup, Law 19.13

[LAWS]
  • The scrum-half chooses which side of the scrum to throw in the ball.
[/LAWS]
 

Phil E


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Urban Myth. Nothing in law to say he has to stick with his decision for every subsequent scrum.

He can choose which side at each scrum,...although I have no idea why you would want to choose the other side?
 

Jz558


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Only reason I've seen to pick a feed from the tight head side was because the hooker was considerably better with his left foot than his right. I realise that's a bit of an amateurism because in most cases now the second row need to be more handy with their feet than the hooker but funnily enough I had a scrum half feed from the tight head side for the entire game a couple of weeks ago for that very reason.
 

DocY


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Urban Myth. Nothing in law to say he has to stick with his decision for every subsequent scrum.

It keeps cropping up. The old lawbook said, IIRC, "the scrum half must put the ball into the scrum on the side first chosen" and some people (including at least one assessor) took that to mean for the rest of the game.
 

Lee Lifeson-Peart


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Referees from the Midlands - say no more!:biggrin:
 

Taff


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.... Having read the law I believe it only applies to the scrum in progress, nowhere does it say he decides for the whole game.
That's my understanding too. Having said that, I've had kids just starting out who have gone to the wrong side by mistake. I have let them change, but I have explained to them why some Refs wouldn't let them. It only tends to happen with youngsters; I don't think I've ever had it happen at Youth or Senior level.

Urban Myth. Nothing in law to say he has to stick with his decision for every subsequent scrum. He can choose which side at each scrum,...although I have no idea why you would want to choose the other side?
Only reason I've seen to pick a feed from the tight head side was because the hooker was considerably better with his left foot than his right.
That's what I'm thinking. If a Hooker is left footed, he may just find it far more comfortable using his left foot to hook it back - which means a feed from the right.
 

crossref


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When the scrum is uncontested you may well decide to use the other side , depending on whether it is blind or open , and the move you are planning

I don't understand why teams never think of this .. they invariably stand on the normal side
 

crossref


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It keeps cropping up. The old lawbook said, IIRC, "the scrum half must put the ball into the scrum on the side first chosen" and some people (including at least one assessor) took that to mean for the rest of the game.

Well, there you are, the referee will be one of those 2017fundamentalists grimly reffing to the old law book, pausing merely to remark that 'there are no law changes '
 

OB..


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Well, there you are, the referee will be one of those 2017fundamentalists grimly reffing to the old law book, pausing merely to remark that 'there are no law changes '
2017[LAWS]20.5 [...] The scrum half must throw in the ball from the side of the scrum first chosen.[/LAWS]
The wording is ambiguous since it fails to define when this law applies. As it stands it could mean from the first scrum, or it could mean "at each scrum". The latter has been the standard view. I would mark it as a law error if any referee tried to enforce the former view.

Many years ago I actually had to enforce this law. Anyone else? It must be pretty rare.
 

DocY


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Many years ago I actually had to enforce this law. Anyone else? It must be pretty rare.

I've come across the situation once, but didn't enforce it.

A team that were a long way behind put someone at scrum half who didn't look like he'd ever played there before. He went to the TH and a team-mate 'reminded' him where he should be.

I thought a "Don't do that again" better than a FK in the circumstances.
 

Phil E


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I cant imagine ever penalising anyone for this.

Most of the time they just absentmindedly wander to the wrong side.
A quick "would you like to join us on this side?" is met with "Oh yeah" embarrassed laugh.

The only time I could see enforcing this is if they go I am definitely putting in from this side ref....we start the engagement and they go...no I've changed my mind, I want to put in from the other side.
 

OB..


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I've come across the situation once, but didn't enforce it.

A team that were a long way behind put someone at scrum half who didn't look like he'd ever played there before. He went to the TH and a team-mate 'reminded' him where he should be.

I thought a "Don't do that again" better than a FK in the circumstances.
I didn't penalise it because the scrum half had never played the position before, but I did make him stay the same side. The confusion was such that his team won the ball anyway, and he didn't make the same mistake again.
 

Dickie E


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I frequently stand on the non-feed side and sometimes the SH will absentmindedly join me there. A quick reminder sorts it out.
 

Arabcheif

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I read the lead the same. The scrum half can change sides for each scrum. Might be an issue in a reset scrum???


Another thought.... can the scrum half stand at the rear of the scrum and come to the tunnel at the "bind?"
 

didds

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If it was before the engagement Id be surprised that the THP didn't have a word. and even if after the engagement (and that woulnd;t happen today surely?) possibly still the right flanker.

Something I am mildly surprised at is that when scrums go uncontested the tactical choice of side fo scrummage to put in isn;t used more - as it pulls the defending scrum half away from a place you may want to attack. (susual caveats over age groups etc)

didds
 
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