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TNT88


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I've got a few questions about stuff that's been happening in my games recently.

1) Regarding the 10m law. Do all players within the 10m have to retire to the 10m line immediately (or behind the kicker if that is closer) ? I've had players waiting inside the 10 remaining still waiting to be put onside.

2) When can the flankers leave a line out to run at the fly half? What sort of guide would you use? (i've had players leaving the line out as soon as the jumper has tapped the ball towards his goal line)

3) If the ball is passed to a player just in front of the ball carrier, would you call offside, or forward pass? The law says "offside" in the case of a knock on. But i'm wondering if passing to a player 1m in front of the ball carrier (technically offside) would count.

thanks.
 

ianh5979


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1) All the players inside the 10m have to retire until put onside, penalty if they do not.
2) no problem with players leaving the lineout after the ball has been tapped back, lineout is over
3) Unless you consider the pass deliberate call it as forward pass
 

bignij


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What Ian says.
I might add, in your original post you say 'waiting to be put onside'. They have to make an effort to retire / get onside. They can't just stand there doing nowt!
 

Phil E


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I agree with Ian as well, although a bit more information on Q1 might help.

If they are in front of the kicker, but NOT within 10m of the receiver then they CAN just stand still and wait to be put onside. What they CAN't do is advance towards the receiver, OR sideways in the direction of the receiver.

If they are in front of the kicker AND within 10m of the receiver then as said, they MUST retreat, and keep retreating until they are onside. Again retreating means backwards, not sideways in the direction of the receiver.

The penalty is an option of PK (at the point of being offside) or scrum (at place of kick).
 

TNT88


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Makes things alot clearer. Thanks everyone.
 

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I agree with Ian as well, although a bit more information on Q1 might help.

If they are in front of the kicker, but NOT within 10m of the receiver then they CAN just stand still and wait to be put onside. What they CAN't do is advance towards the receiver, OR sideways in the direction of the receiver.

If they are in front of the kicker AND within 10m of the receiver then as said, they MUST retreat, and keep retreating until they are onside. Again retreating means backwards, not sideways in the direction of the receiver.

The penalty is an option of PK (at the point of being offside) or scrum (at place of kick).

The original poster states players within 10m

TNT88 said:
1) Regarding the 10m law. Do all players within the 10m have to retire to the 10m line immediately (or behind the kicker if that is closer) ? I've had players waiting inside the 10 remaining still waiting to be put onside.
 

Phil E


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ATTR, what is your point exactly?

I covered being within 10m...but for completeness also covered other offsides at a kick.

Are you just trying to provoke something?
 

Davet

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If they are in front of the kicker AND within 10m of the receiver then as said, they MUST retreat, and keep retreating until they are onside. Again retreating means backwards, not sideways in the direction of the receiver.

Not quite.

They must retreat until they are behind a line 10m back from where the ball landed or was caught, but do not have to keep retreating until they are actually onside
 

TNT88


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I'm trying to simplify the touch/lineout laws in my mind. Would this be correct:

Once the ball has crossed the touch-line (from a kick), the only way it can come back into play (while it's still in the air) is if:

(1) The wind (or some factor like that) blows it back in.
(2) A player with 2 feet in the field of play reaches over and taps it back in.
(3) A player catches the ball and lands with two feet in the field of play.

Also, if a player standing in touch (ie: someone trying to catch the ball out on the full) drops the ball, has he taken the ball into touch?
 
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Ian_Cook


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I'm trying to simplify the touch/lineout laws in my mind. Would this be correct:

Once the ball has crossed the touch-line (from a kick), the only way it can come back into play (while it's still in the air) is if:

(1) The wind (or some factor like that) blows it back in.
(2) A player with 2 feet in the field of play reaches over and taps it back in.
(3) A player catches the ball and lands with two feet in the field of play.

(2) .... or catches the ball
?
(4) The ball strikes the corner post and ricochets into the playing area - a possible but very unlikely scenario (where's chopper?)

Also, if a player standing in touch (ie: someone trying to catch the ball out on the full) drops the ball, has he taken the ball into touch?

If he is standing fully in touch, I would say no. Image he his in touch, 15m away from the touchline and drops the ball. Are you really going to say he was responsible for putting it there?

If the player is standing astride the touchline, and drops the ball into touch while attempting to catch it, before it crosses the plane of touch, then I would say yes, he is responsible for putting the ball in touch.

The questionable bit is if the ball has already crossed the plane of touch, and he is standing astride the touchline, and drops the ball, is he then responsible? Logic would appear to say no, because the ball would have gone into touch anyway if he had not attempted to catch it. However, I think some will argue otherwise.
 

Taff


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1) Regarding the 10m law. Do all players within the 10m have to retire to the 10m line immediately (or behind the kicker if that is closer) ? I've had players waiting inside the 10 remaining still waiting to be put onside.
1) All the players inside the 10m have to retire until put onside, penalty if they do not.
I assume this is a common problem because I consider myself an average bloke (not thick - but not the brightest) and the 10m law is one I struggled with. I was ok on the theory, but when you're on the pitch theory goes out of the window. If its any consolation to you TNT you'll probably find that after 2 or 3 incidents it suddenly clicks.

As Ian says, it's a PK offence, but what threw me was the location of the mark for that PK option, and don't forget if you have have several non-retreating players so could have several potential marks. Personally I think the lawbook should give the mark on the imaginary 10m line - but it doesn't. The mark for the PK option is where the offending player "closest to where the ball lands" offended - and be definition, you'll only have one of those. Don't forget though that the PK / Scrum option still exists, so the non-offending side can opt for a scrum where the ball was kicked if they prefer. Trust me, it will click.

3) If the ball is passed to a player just in front of the ball carrier, would you call offside, or forward pass? The law says "offside" in the case of a knock on. But i'm wondering if passing to a player 1m in front of the ball carrier (technically offside) would count.
I think you've confused yourself. If a player receives a forward pass the lawbook specifically says it isn't an offside offence. See 11.1. Note the word "unintentional" - an intentional throw forward is a PK offence anyway.

11.1 A player who receives an unintentional throw forward is not offside.

What I think you're getting confused on is an offside player who instinctively picks up a knocked forward ball AND "who deprives the opposition of an advantage" I think the wording says is PKd. So if you have a huddle of Red players waiting for a kicked ball to come down, the "catcher" drops the ball forward and a team mate in front of him picks it up - treat it as a straightforward knock on (ie a scrum) unless there were opposition players nearby who could have "taken advantage" of the situation - in that case it's a PK. It feels unfair, but that's what the book says.
 
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didds

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for my interest now..


A kicks ball to oppo Z who is 20m away. B (on A's team) is 28m away, the other side of Z.

In order for B top get onside he must retire 18m. BUT... this may require him to run TOWARDS Z whilst doing so in order to pass Z and proceed to a point 10m closer to B's tryline that where Z (and the ball) are/will be.

What should B be doing to remain legal?

didds
 

Taff


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for my interest now.. A kicks ball to oppo Z who is 20m away. B (on A's team) is 28m away, the other side of Z. In order for B top get onside he must retire 18m. BUT... this may require him to run TOWARDS Z whilst doing so in order to pass Z and proceed to a point 10m closer to B's tryline that where Z (and the ball) are/will be. What should B be doing to remain legal?
I'm so glad you asked that, because that exact thing happened to me in a game last season. TBH I could see the problem, but it happened so fast that it threw me and I didn't say anything. As it happened, the 2 "offending" players didn't interefere with play, so I got away with it.

oh gawd... [clarifying Lineouts] welcome to a world of pain.
  • Top Tip No 1: If you have Sky, watch some lineouts in slow-mo and shout out when the LO is over.
  • Top Tip No 2: Only try Top Tip 1 when you're alone, otherwise the family will think you've lost the plot. :biggrin:
 
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Davet

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Didds - with the fetish for ariel pingpong this can happen quite easily.

If the well offside player keeps out of the damn way then let him be, and play on. If he retreats directly past the catcher then ping him for being stupid - he knows, you know and I know that his presence will affect the catcher, and should the bloke drop the ball he has "innocently" won a scrum for his team, by OBEYING the Law - frankly, pull the other one and don't play me for codfish.

"But, Siiiiirr, I was retreating"

"Retreating right at him - back 10!"
 

Davet

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Once the ball has crossed the touch-line (from a kick), the only way it can come back into play (while it's still in the air) is if:

(1) The wind (or some factor like that) blows it back in.
(2) A player with 2 feet in the field of play reaches over and taps it back in.
(3) A player catches the ball and lands with two feet in the field of play.

As Ian says at 2 a catch would work as well.

If the all hasn't crossed the line then a player in touch may knock it back in.

Also, if a player standing in touch (ie: someone trying to catch the ball out on the full) drops the ball, has he taken the ball into touch?

No. The ball is in touch when it strikes some object (eg a player) that is itself in touch. That's why catching the ball from an oppo kick when you are stood on the line gives your side the throw. Touching would work equally as well - the dropping is irrelevant. As soon as the ball touches the player in touch then the ball is in touch - EXCEPT, as noted earlier, if that player knocks the ball back into play before the ball itself crosses the plane of touch; that would result in either play on, or a knock forward.
 

coonor


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for my interest now..


A kicks ball to oppo Z who is 20m away. B (on A's team) is 28m away, the other side of Z.

In order for B top get onside he must retire 18m. BUT... this may require him to run TOWARDS Z whilst doing so in order to pass Z and proceed to a point 10m closer to B's tryline that where Z (and the ball) are/will be.

What should B be doing to remain legal?

didds

I think it's a question of materiality. If the retreating player has an impact then ping him, if he doesn't then allow him to retreat as normal.
 

TheBFG


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If the player is standing astride the touchline, and drops the ball into touch while attempting to catch it, before it crosses the plane of touch, then I would say yes, he is responsible for putting the ball in touch.

taking this one a little further and using this years new laws (1st sept onwards) can you offer the LO/scrum option in this case :chin:
 

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ATTR, what is your point exactly?

I covered being within 10m...but for completeness also covered other offsides at a kick.

Are you just trying to provoke something?


Just returned to this thread. NO not trying to provoke anything. The question was quite specific, why complicate it with stuff the guy is not asking?
 
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