Quick Unseen Tap

Taffy


Referees in England
Joined
Sep 17, 2012
Messages
342
Post Likes
32
This from today.

I award penalty to White. They shape to take it quickly.

Blue defender shouts out "Ten here sir?"

I glance up and indicate "OK"......by which time, White scrum half has taken it, made a complete horlicks of it and suddenly the ball is away from him falling to the floor. I suspect he had tapped it (not knocked it on) and it had gone farther off his foot than he expected.

But I didn't see it.

So brought him back with a "sorry chaps, didn't see it"

and asked him to take it again.

A bit of mumbling from Blue.

Any thoughts?
 

Adam


Referees in England
Joined
Apr 2, 2008
Messages
2,489
Post Likes
35
If the quick tap is on I'm unlikely to be responding to the' am I ten ref' until I have seen the tap.

Given you didn't see it take it again sounds reasonable.
 

Taff


Referees in Wales
Joined
Aug 23, 2009
Messages
6,939
Post Likes
378
There's only a couple of things I address to the SH at the PMB. One of those is "If you're taking a quick tap, make sure it's at the mark or on a line behind it and please make sure I see it".

If they take a quick tap and I don't see it, then they can't really complain when I bring them back, can he.
 
Last edited:

Dave Sherwin


Referees in the Cayman Islands
Joined
Sep 9, 2012
Messages
283
Post Likes
52
I would have done what you did. My PMB always includes an instruction to the 9 (since they are the normal culprits) that they must ensure I am watching if they are taking a quick tap. Afraid I always combine it with a tired joke about my being distracted by hot girl in the crowd.

of course, it's not fair to put the onus on him, really, so my side of the bargain (not, for the avoidance of doubt, explained in my PMB) is that I have three very clear priorities on awarding a penalty. A) spot the ball B) police the players immediately around the ball C) indicate the mark (can be by pointing if it any distance away, which is better than running over to it and so losing focus on the ball and immediately surrounding penalties). Those are my priorities, and they certainly come before advising a team if they are 10 (which is their responsibility). Of course, I would help if the other priorities allow, as that is helpful management, but the other priorities come first.
 

pwhaling


Referees in America
Joined
May 9, 2011
Messages
279
Post Likes
16
Adam:290509 said:
If the quick tap is on I'm unlikely to be responding to the' am I ten ref' until I have seen the tap.

Here is how I learned this lesson the hard way:
Penalty to black (offside, knock on and offside player played it). Ball is away (not too far). Green captain asks what the penalty was for, I look at him and answer. While I am answering the ball bounces off my back. I turn to see the black 9 quick tap, a couple of phases later try under the sticks. Green captain asks me about the knock on, I ask what knock on.

Here's what I thought happened: one of the backs passed the ball to the 9 and it hit me.

After the game one of the home side coaching team is also a ref coach. He tells me I had a good game but what about the big blunder? I have no idea what he is talking about.

Here's what actually happened:
Nine quick taps, knocks it on into my back. I turn he taps again.

Moral: Don't take your eyes off the ball.
Bonus: apparently there is video
 

Dickie E


Referees in Australia
Joined
Jan 19, 2007
Messages
13,473
Post Likes
1,681
Current Referee grade:
Level 2
Here's what I thought happened: one of the backs passed the ball to the 9 and it hit me.

Irrespective of the knock on I would not allow the quick tap if the ball hits me as this gives one team an unfair advantage.
 

L'irlandais

, Promises to Referee in France
Joined
May 11, 2010
Messages
4,724
Post Likes
325
Hi pwhaling,
I agree with Dickie, isn't it Law 6 :
[laws]6.A.10 The ball touching the referee
(a) If the ball or the ball carrier touches the referee and neither team gains an advantage, play continues. If either team gains an advantage in the field of play, the referee orders a scrum and the team that last played the ball has the throw-in.[/laws]Awarding them a try, after the ball touched you is a blunder. Perhaps the video will exonerate you. ;-)
 

Browner

Banned
Joined
Jan 20, 2012
Messages
6,000
Post Likes
270
Here is how I learned this lesson the hard way:
Penalty to black (offside, knock on and offside player played it). Ball is away (not too far). Green captain asks what the penalty was for, I look at him and answer. While I am answering the ball bounces off my back. I turn to see the black 9 quick tap, a couple of phases later try under the sticks. Green captain asks me about the knock on, I ask what knock on.

Here's what I thought happened: one of the backs passed the ball to the 9 and it hit me.

After the game one of the home side coaching team is also a ref coach. He tells me I had a good game but what about the big blunder? I have no idea what he is talking about.

Here's what actually happened:
Nine quick taps, knocks it on into my back. I turn he taps again.

Moral: Don't take your eyes off the ball.
Bonus: apparently there is video


Unless im mistaken this isn't actually that much of a problem, the player took the QT behind you whilst you werent looking, and theorecticallly you disallowed the QT whilst unsighted. ( the fact that he cocked up this unallowed Blind QT, actually becomes irrelevant)

Instead , he took it again when you were sighted , play on.
 

Blackberry


Referees in England
Joined
Jan 27, 2011
Messages
1,101
Post Likes
185
I manage these situations (where I am not going to call Time Off) by automatically focusing on the ball from when I blow the whistle for a penalty, even if I am talking to other players. I pointedly look at the ball for the first few seconds, after which the QT becomes a moot point. It works every time and seems to reassure the players that everything has be done properly.
 

OB..


Referees in England
Staff member
Joined
Oct 7, 2004
Messages
22,961
Post Likes
1,823
This from today.

I award penalty to White. They shape to take it quickly.

Blue defender shouts out "Ten here sir?"
At this point many referees say "No." without looking.
 

beckett50


Referees in England
Joined
Jan 31, 2004
Messages
2,513
Post Likes
223
Current Referee grade:
Level 6
At this point many referees say "No." without looking.

Whilst running back from the mark to widen the field of view keeping the ball in sight
 

pwhaling


Referees in America
Joined
May 9, 2011
Messages
279
Post Likes
16
L'irlandais:290526 said:
Hi pwhaling,
I agree with Dickie, isn't it Law 6 :
[laws]6.A.10 The ball touching the referee
(a) If the ball or the ball carrier touches the referee and neither team gains an advantage, play continues. If either team gains an advantage in the field of play, the referee orders a scrum and the team that last played the ball has the throw-in.[/laws]Awarding them a try, after the ball touched you is a blunder. Perhaps the video will exonerate you. ;-)
I agree it was an entire bucket full of fail. I did learn my lesson about players gaming/distracting me at penalty time.
 

Dickie E


Referees in Australia
Joined
Jan 19, 2007
Messages
13,473
Post Likes
1,681
Current Referee grade:
Level 2
At this point many referees say "No." without looking.

I can imagine a poor referee saying this. What would a good referee say?
 

Adam


Referees in England
Joined
Apr 2, 2008
Messages
2,489
Post Likes
35
I can imagine a poor referee saying this. What would a good referee say?

Well personally I don't remember having this experience, but maybe I just have an accustomed deaf ear after a penalty award and am focusing on other things?
 

Taff


Referees in Wales
Joined
Aug 23, 2009
Messages
6,939
Post Likes
378
At PKs and FKs, it amazes me that so many players ask "Are we OK here sir?" when the pitch is bristling with 10m and 5m lines.

Work it out from the lines gents. It's not rocket science.
 

menace


Referees in Australia
Joined
Nov 20, 2009
Messages
3,591
Post Likes
567
Current Referee grade:
Level 2
At PKs and FKs, it amazes me that so many players ask "Are we OK here sir?" when the pitch is bristling with 10m and 5m lines.

Work it out from the lines gents. It's not rocket science.

Gee you've opened the door for a stab at players with a single digit on their back. :wink: not that I would ever suggest it. :sarc:
 

Phil E


Referees in England
Staff member
Joined
Jan 22, 2008
Messages
15,536
Post Likes
1,822
Current Referee grade:
Level 8
PMB......"Rule of thumb. If you have to ask if your back 10....then you're not."
 

Pinky


Referees in Scotland
Joined
Apr 9, 2010
Messages
1,517
Post Likes
187
I agree it was an entire bucket full of fail. I did learn my lesson about players gaming/distracting me at penalty time.

Phwaling, whilst I think the advice to keep an eye on the ball is good, there are always times when you need to look elsewhere. I wouldn't beat yourself about this as I think Browner has a good logic to respond to the critics. The oppos have also broken a rule from your PMB by asking for clarification during play and not downtime.

As for the ball hitting the ref, I have alsways assumed that was whilst the ball was in play as when the ball is dead, I don't really see how a team can get an advantage when there is still to be a restart. I accept that some circumstances may represent an advantage, like bouncing the ball off the ref immediately prior to a quick restart, but generally these will be exceptional.
 

Dickie E


Referees in Australia
Joined
Jan 19, 2007
Messages
13,473
Post Likes
1,681
Current Referee grade:
Level 2
As for the ball hitting the ref, I have alsways assumed that was whilst the ball was in play as when the ball is dead, I don't really see how a team can get an advantage when there is still to be a restart.

Well, this happened a season or 2 ago. I awarded a penalty to Red and the ball was about 15 metres from the mark. A Red player threw the ball towards the mark and it would have rolled on its merry way except I stuck my foot out and stopped it - just being helpful, like.

Another Red player picked up ball, took QT and was away.

Not fair, I think.
 

Pinky


Referees in Scotland
Joined
Apr 9, 2010
Messages
1,517
Post Likes
187
Well, this happened a season or 2 ago. I awarded a penalty to Red and the ball was about 15 metres from the mark. A Red player threw the ball towards the mark and it would have rolled on its merry way except I stuck my foot out and stopped it - just being helpful, like.

Another Red player picked up ball, took QT and was away.

Not fair, I think.

I agree - I mean imagine the referee facilitating the game:biggrin:
 
Top