red card decision Canada v Scotland [MERGED]

[irishref]

http://www.rugbydump.com/2014/06/37...rsially-red-carded-for-leading-with-the-elbow

Your thoughts? Fair enough call in my humble one. Brave one though.

 

[FightOrFlight]

Sinclair RC v Scotland

http://www.rugbydump.com/2014/06/37...rsially-red-carded-for-leading-with-the-elbow

Although there are many people getting their willies out and waving them around shouting "this is a man's sport" I think the ref got this right. Regardless of how physical the game is you cannot elbow a guy in the head...that's just dangerous. The player moves his arm clearly to fend the tackler and leads with the elbow to the head.....:norc: all day in my opinion

 

[4eyesbetter]

Re: red card decision Canada v Scotland

I think I would probably prefer 10 in the bin (on the grounds that it is dangerous contact and it is somewhat reckless, but there seems not to be any intent to contact the head), but I won't argue too hard against the decision reached.

 

[Simon Thomas]

Re: red card decision Canada v Scotland

I thought a RC was harsh, and YC would have sufficed. Elbow was kept in to the side not extended.

The overall temper of match was physical but fair.

 

[Shelflife]

Re: red card decision Canada v Scotland

I don't think its even a pen, red keeps his arms by his side and blue effectively makes contact with his arm.

For me its more of a head butt to his elbow then anything. red doesnt lead with his elbow, there is a push away movement after blue makes contact but that's it.

 

[RobLev]

Re: red card decision Canada v Scotland

http://www.rugbydump.com/2014/06/37...rsially-red-carded-for-leading-with-the-elbow

Your thoughts? Fair enough call in my humble one. Brave one though.

Nailed-on RC for me. I must humbly disagree with those saying that he kept his arms/elbow by his side; he didn't, andthe follow-through is evident. Stop the video at 0:42 as Red #5 receives the ball and transfers it to his left hand. Note the position of the right elbow, level with his body, pretty much tucked in; as he goes into contact, Red #5 swings his right shoulder forward, and his arm lifts so there is 6 inches of daylight between the elbow and his side as he hits the Blue tackler flush on the jaw with the elbow. As Blue falls to the floor, the arm is now pointing forward and down from the shoulder at 45 degrees.

For me, Red #5 lines the tackler up and deliberately strikes him with his elbow as they make contact. As the ref says, he had no choice but to RC him.

 

[pwhaling]

From the stands (and a few beers deep) I thought it was a harsh call. Seeing the replay again (and a wee bit more sober) I think he got it right.

 

[Drift]

Re: Sinclair RC v Scotland

Happy to disagree with you two there. He didn't lead with the elbow, more pushed away with it after it being pushed against his body.

 

[RobLev]

Re: red card decision Canada v Scotland

Nailed-on RC for me. I must humbly disagree with those saying that he kept his arms/elbow by his side; he didn't, andthe follow-through is evident. Stop the video at 0:42 as Red #5 receives the ball and transfers it to his left hand. Note the position of the right elbow, level with his body, pretty much tucked in; as he goes into contact, Red #5 swings his right shoulder forward, and his arm lifts so there is 6 inches of daylight between the elbow and his side as he hits the Blue tackler flush on the jaw with the elbow. As Blue falls to the floor, the arm is now pointing forward and down from the shoulder at 45 degrees.

For me, Red #5 lines the tackler up and deliberately strikes him with his elbow as they make contact. As the ref says, he had no choice but to RC him.

Oops: #5 = #6.

 

[FightOrFlight]

Re: Sinclair RC v Scotland

Happy to disagree with you two there. He didn't lead with the elbow, more pushed away with it after it being pushed against his body.

For me his elbow is moving forward to contact the head...regardless of how piss poor the tackler's position is you cannot use the elbow to fend and if you do so you are liable to have this happen

 

[Drift]

Re: Sinclair RC v Scotland

For me his elbow is moving forward to contact the head...regardless of how piss poor the tackler's position is you cannot use the elbow to fend and if you do so you are liable to have this happen

No it's not. Watch it again, it's a piss poor tackling technique but the guy is using his arm as a 'lever' to push the player away just like he would when fending. Not even a PK let alone a card. Don't try to look for reasons to blow the whistle and bring attention to yourself.

I agree if you lead with the elbow then you deserve to be sanctioned, this is just a good drive in the tackle. Nothing more, nothing less. Have a look at this, that is not leading with the elbow. That is an example of where not to put your head when making a tack;e.

 

[Ian_Cook]

Re: red card decision Canada v Scotland

Very, very harsh IMO. If the tackler was a 3' high dwarf, then maybe a YC would have been justified, but it was just unfortunate that the tackler was crouching as he tackled.

The Red ball carrier has his arms by his side and only follows through as or after contact is made. I would say the tackler's head would have struck the ball carrier on the arm whether he moved them or not, with similar consequences.

The situation wasn't helped by the tackler putting himself on danger with exceedingly poor tackling technique. If you are a small man tackling a big man like Sinclair, leading with your head into (instead of past) the opponent's hips is not the wisest way of going about it.

 

[Drift]

Just posted this in the other thread. No way is that even a PK let alone a RC.

For me his elbow is moving forward to contact the head...regardless of how piss poor the tackler's position is you cannot use the elbow to fend and if you do so you are liable to have this happen

No it's not. Watch it again, it's a piss poor tackling technique but the guy is using his arm as a 'lever' to push the player away just like he would when fending. Not even a PK let alone a card. Don't try to look for reasons to blow the whistle and bring attention to yourself.

I agree if you lead with the elbow then you deserve to be sanctioned, this is just a good drive in the tackle. Nothing more, nothing less. Have a look at this, that is not leading with the elbow. That is an example of where not to put your head when making a tackle.
View attachment 2898

 

[Ian_Cook]

Re: red card decision Canada v Scotland

Threads merged!

 

[Ian_Cook]

Just posted this in the other thread. No way is that even a PK let alone a RC.



No it's not. Watch it again, it's a piss poor tackling technique but the guy is using his arm as a 'lever' to push the player away just like he would when fending. Not even a PK let alone a card. Don't try to look for reasons to blow the whistle and bring attention to yourself.

I agree if you lead with the elbow then you deserve to be sanctioned, this is just a good drive in the tackle. Nothing more, nothing less. Have a look at this, that is not leading with the elbow. That is an example of where not to put your head when making a tackle.
View attachment 2898

100%, and the Ball Carrier's elbow goes forward just after this because it "springs back" after being bent back by the impact of the tackler's head.


I fully expect this RC to be reversed by the judiciary.

 

[leaguerefaus]

Horrendous call IMO. At first I thought they must have been looking at #5 red, because #6 red didn't even go close to doing something wrong (neither did #5 red, mind you!).

 

[Dickie E]

once again, decision is based on severity of the injury. If the Scottish player had got straight to his feet we wouldn't be having this discussion.

 

[RobLev]

...

No it's not. Watch it again, it's a piss poor tackling technique but the guy is using his arm as a 'lever' to push the player away just like he would when fending.

...

Sorry, but I just can't see this. Red #5 takes the ball, transfers it to his left hand and immediately starts swinging his shoulders right to left as he goes into the tackle; as he does so, his right elbow moves away from his body and strikes the tackler on the jaw. The elbow is then pushed back by the impact into his side, and then he uses the arm as a lever, but the elbow strike had already taken place by then.

 

[RobLev]

Sorry, but I just can't see this. Red #5 takes the ball, transfers it to his left hand and immediately starts swinging his shoulders right to left as he goes into the tackle; as he does so, his right elbow moves away from his body and strikes the tackler on the jaw. The elbow is then pushed back by the impact into his side, and then he uses the arm as a lever, but the elbow strike had already taken place by then.

...and I understand that the IRB has declined to take further disciplinary action on grounds of no intent to injure, but hasn't reversed the card. That is said from reports of what the IRB said.

 

[Drift]

Sorry, but I just can't see this. Red #5 takes the ball, transfers it to his left hand and immediately starts swinging his shoulders right to left as he goes into the tackle; as he does so, his right elbow moves away from his body and strikes the tackler on the jaw. The elbow is then pushed back by the impact into his side, and then he uses the arm as a lever, but the elbow strike had already taken place by then.

Are you sure you're watching the same video as me? That is not an 'elbow strike', it's an unfortunate accident which should have been play on. If you think that is foul play then I would imagine your games are constantly interrupted by your own whistle...