[Law] Regulation 13 - Problems, or nothing to see here?

[TheBFG]

OK, so we've been told by RFU that the "new law" with regards to a "free sub" after foul play is not relevant at our levels (5 - 15 or whatever).

So today we get the clarification after the WRU question in relation to a FR player that has to leave the pitch due to foul play and the need to then potentially play uncontested.

Clarification confirms they play on uncontested with 15 players.

Thoughts on if that's the same for us muggles in the weeds?

 

[DocY]

I can only speculate, but I'd suggest not.

If the RFU were choosing to ignore the whole law before, why would they change their mind in part based on a clarification of a technicality (and a fully-expected one).

Out of interest, do you know why they decided it wouldn't apply? I can't see it as a safety or fairness issue.

 

[TheBFG]

Because you have 8 interchanges and therefore there's no need.

However, watch this space over the FR scenario ....

 

[crossref]

The new Law does not give you a free substitution
(even though that is what the wr press release said)
The new law is that a previous substituted player can come back to replace a player injured by foul play

When you are playing the interchange system, that was always the case. So no change

 

[TigerCraig]

The new Law does not give you a free substitution
(even though that is what the wr press release said)
The new law is that a previous substituted player can come back to replace a player injured by foul play

When you are playing the interchange system, that was always the case. So no change

Unless you have already used your 8 interchanges

I had that happen this year with the adult team I coach and the ref let me do an extra interchange

 

[crossref]

Unless you have already used your 8 interchanges

I had that happen this year with the adult team I coach and the ref let me do an extra interchange

well, he was wrong, when you have done your interchanges, you don't get any more- even for blood, concussion or foul play

 

[beckett50]

I understand that the RFU have now seen the error of their ways and this is now in place at "Community Rugby" levels - in addition to the professional game.
Still not seen in writing but have had it relayed verbally.

 

[crossref]

I understand that the RFU have now seen the error of their ways and this is now in place at "Community Rugby" levels - in addition to the professional game.
Still not seen in writing but have had it relayed verbally.

no, becasue it's ALWAYS been the case in community rugby, platyed with interchanges/

Sigh, so much confusion here -- caused by World Rugby's own misleading press release

Here's the new Law (the bold bit is new)

[LAWS]3.14 Substituted players rejoining the match
If a player is substituted, that player may only return to play when replacing:
an injured front row player in accordance with Law 3.5
a player with a blood injury in accordance with Law 3.11
a player undertaking a Head Injury Assessment in accordance with Law 3.12
a player who has been injured as a result of foul play (as verified by the Match Officials).
[/LAWS]

It's pretty clear, but then WR really muddied the water with their press release that said "The replacement of a player injured following foul play does not count as one of the allotted number of replacements available to that team"
- which was completely wrong! That's not what the LAw says at all
- but being a press release was widely picked up and repeated -- causing all sorts of confusion

 

[TheBFG]

I understand that the RFU have now seen the error of their ways and this is now in place at "Community Rugby" levels - in addition to the professional game.
Still not seen in writing but have had it relayed verbally.

it's being written as we "speak"

So we could end up with a situation where we have uncontested scrums with 15 on the pitch!

 

[TheBFG]

Just had this through.......

RFU Regulation 13 Appendix 2 – Rolling Substitutions

The new Law relating to injuries as a result of foul play applies (as amended by the Law Clarifications).

If a front row player goes off injured following foul play and there is no front row player available to permit contested scrums to continue, then, provided the team has unused interchanges available, the player can be replaced and the game continues with uncontested scrums.

In the same situation if the player’s injury was accidental, or if the team has used all of its interchanges, then the team has to continue with one less player.

Hope this helps, regards,
Laws @RFU.com

 

[OB..]

So we could end up with a situation where we have uncontested scrums with 15 on the pitch!

Gloucestershire Leagues do not apply the man-off rule, so that is not unusual

 

[TheBFG]

Their sides at L7 and 6 do though!

 

[crossref]

Just had this through.......

RFU Regulation 13 Appendix 2 – Rolling Substitutions

The new Law relating to injuries as a result of foul play applies (as amended by the Law Clarifications).

If a front row player goes off injured following foul play and there is no front row player available to permit contested scrums to continue, then, provided the team has unused interchanges available, the player can be replaced and the game continues with uncontested scrums.

In the same situation if the player’s injury was accidental, or if the team has used all of its interchanges, then the team has to continue with one less player.

Hope this helps, regards,
Laws @RFU.com

what was the question you asked?

hmm-- man-off is one of the areas where every competition is able to make its own rules -- so I guess the organisers of every competition have to be asked the same question.

In one competition where I ref, a team causing uncontested scrums does NOT suffer man-off, but DOES suffer a 10 point penalty in the game. So perhaps if that happens teams might wonder if the 10 point penalty applies.

 

[Ciaran Trainor]

I still think the Law is an Ass.
When it was first talked about the implication was that if you lost a man due to foul play, temporarily to be assessd, it would not count as one of your 8 interchanges.
I'm still not sure what the new change was supposed to do, certainly is not helping the non guilty party.

 

[TheBFG]

I still think the Law is an Ass.
When it was first talked about the implication was that if you lost a man due to foul play, temporarily to be assessd, it would not count as one of your 8 interchanges.
I'm still not sure what the new change was supposed to do, certainly is not helping the non guilty party.

The new change was to allow this type of thing:

Red 10 having a shocker, so is technically subbed and replaced by Red 20.

Red 20 then gets short armed and has to leave the field.

Under the old regulations Red 10 wasn't allowed to come back on, but under the new regulations he can.

It's not used at levels where there are a minimum of 8 interchanges, but due to the ruling last week from WR after the request from the WRFU, the above has been brought in.

 

[Pegleg]

Deleted.

 

[didds]

Just had this through.......

RFU Regulation 13 Appendix 2 – Rolling Substitutions

The new Law relating to injuries as a result of foul play applies (as amended by the Law Clarifications).

If a front row player goes off injured following foul play and there is no front row player available to permit contested scrums to continue, then, provided the team has unused interchanges available, the player can be replaced and the game continues with uncontested scrums.

In the same situation if the player’s injury was accidental, or if the team has used all of its interchanges, then the team has to continue with one less player.

Hope this helps, regards,
Laws @RFU.com

Hmmm...

sees mad scenario of injured prop lieing on floor, then surronded by yteaj mates, one who lamps him - ref cannpt see player do this cos of ring of players.

people now injured through foul play albeit by team mate!


;-)

didds

 

[didds]

In one competition where I ref, a team causing uncontested scrums does NOT suffer man-off, but DOES suffer a 10 point penalty in the game. So perhaps if that happens teams might wonder if the 10 point penalty applies.

That's madness!

If team A has used all FR replacements, then all team B need to do if losing by <10 points, is to nobble on of the props, so A go uncontested and B are awarded 10 points and win!

didds

 

[crossref]

That's madness!

If team A has used all FR replacements, then all team B need to do if losing by <10 points, is to nobble on of the props, so A go uncontested and B are awarded 10 points and win!

didds

You only suffer the penalty if you can't replace the front row at the first time of asking (or second time depending on how many subs you have... It's complicated basically. Also if you DO drop to 14 then there is no penalty..) Sussex Merit Table if you want to look it up