Repeated Infringements

BurritoKing


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Everyone has some varying opinion on what is repeated infringements or not.

But what I want to know is -

How do you keep track of repeated infringements?
 

ddjamo


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count them.

midwest - eh? who is this? burrito king? B3? that grade isn't used any longer?
 

Dixie


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It's in your mind. If it's a player coming to your attention, he's stood out from the crowd so you note his incremental offences. Warning after two in relatively quick succession (say within 5 minutes), third is a card.

More difficult is the team offending - but it's almost always at a breakdown, and you've still only got to count to three. Don't agonise over the precise offence; call it killing the ball, and the first was the guy who flopped over the back of the ruck just after kick-off; the second was the tackler who failed to roll away; and the third is the player who pulled in the #9 as he was reaching for the ball. That's when you warn the skipper - pointing theatrically to the locations of the three offences, and indicating No More to all and sundry. So when the player on the ground next sticks his legs out to interfere with the pass, no-one's surprised at the card you issue.
 

Davet

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It's in your mind. If it's a player coming to your attention, he's stood out from the crowd so you note his incremental offences. Warning after two in relatively quick succession (say within 5 minutes), third is a card.

More difficult is the team offending - but it's almost always at a breakdown, and you've still only got to count to three. Don't agonise over the precise offence; call it killing the ball, and the first was the guy who flopped over the back of the ruck just after kick-off; the second was the tackler who failed to roll away; and the third is the player who pulled in the #9 as he was reaching for the ball. That's when you warn the skipper - pointing theatrically to the locations of the three offences, and indicating No More to all and sundry. So when the player on the ground next sticks his legs out to interfere with the pass, no-one's surprised at the card you issue.

wot dixie sed :clap:
 

Dickie E


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It can be tricky.

3 infringements in 1st 10 minutes - general warning to skipper. Next offence 40 minutes later - YC?

It's really about reading the tone of the game rather than keeping precise count. 4 offences in the space of 10 minutes is more serious than 6 over the course of the game.
 

BurritoKing


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I understand what Dixie is saying and that is relatively easy to act upon. But Dickie has a point about following the flow of the game and such.

Throughout the match, does anyone keep track of penalties?

And ddjamo must have never refereed a match to just reply that he counts them. My guess is he doesn't even keep track of the score, he just remembers it.
 

andyscott


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Throughout the match, does anyone keep track of penalties?

Only when i had a game of 11 PK in the whole match, because they were easy to count.

But its patterns you need to be aware of.
 

ex-lucy


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I understand what Dixie is saying and that is relatively easy to act upon. But Dickie has a point about following the flow of the game and such.

Throughout the match, does anyone keep track of penalties?

And ddjamo must have never refereed a match to just reply that he counts them. My guess is he doesn't even keep track of the score, he just remembers it.

sorry chap, i count my penalties ... as per ddjamo. I think if you want to move up thru the grades you have to start to learn to do this.
it is easy to do so if you use the system as above (see Dixie's post):
breakdown pens
scrums/ line out pens
open play pens
etc
there are a few freds on this on this site.

as you get more experienced ... it does become easier .. certain players are more likely to offend than others ..
 

lawsons

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counting penalties - I disagree, I doubt many refs do this and I don't think its a pre requisite to moving up the grades. Are you telling me by the end of the game you are upto 35 penalties and still counting ? what good does that do you ? "ah your now 3 ahead of the opposition - yc!"

it's all about flow and tempo of the game, the nature of the game and type of offence. Number is more or less irrelevant. In the game AndyScott had with 11 penalties, he could have had 3 YC's for repeat offences. I could have a game with 30 penalties and no yellows.

Concentrate on what the penalties are preventing ie are they preventing blue getting momentum, scoring a try etc, the game flowing, quick ball, fair play etc and get ahead of it happening.

If you start counting, you'll put yourself in a corner that a yellow only comes out after 5 or 3 and each senario is so different you'll make an error.
 

OB..


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I count penalties.

If you are not aware that there has been a series of penalties for effectively the same offence in the past few minutes, it is a black mark against you.

How you decide to get that information is up to you, but you will notice that TV refs are able to quote them back at the payers. I believe some referees keep notes, but I agree it is an advanced skill.
 

andyscott


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In the game AndyScott had with 11 penalties, he could have had 3 YC's for repeat offences. I could have a game with 30 penalties and no yellows.

I had one YC for repeat offending, offside by the FH, 3 times in the first 10 mins, one advantange over, then 2 PK, but 3 offences so naughty step time.

Also had a YC for deliberate offending in the red zone.

I do get most of my games around 16 PKs, but some i use YC and some I dont.
 

andyscott


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but you will notice that TV refs are able to quote them back at the payers.

As they usually are very few, and ARs are sometimes asked to pick up on PK trends ;)
 

ddjamo


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burrito...I was being serious. I started by marking them down every score/shot at goal so I would have to only remember from one point to another. I know how to card count in black jack and apply some of those principles and am usually +/- 1 or 2, by no means perfect. I feel it's important. I can't do an algebra problem to save my life - but can do this rain man like.
 

Not Kurt Weaver


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I had a very Senior ref, who had done international, watch my game. He told me my penalty count and discussed my PK calls in order i.e. "on your fifth penalty you indicated hands in the ruck before your primary signal" To my knowledge he wrote nothing down.

I watched his game the next day and he not only tracked his penalty count, but he was able to tell in order what happened on each one after the game.

Very much a rainman in that regard.
 

duncanb


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Hi

I try to look in time periods of game eg. one side on attack in red zone for a number of minutes then if pens rack up then a player may take a team card always remember to hit the captain no more pens warn ie hands/offside not rolling etc ;
A certain player is a memory thing eg 7 hands in 7 not rolling 7 offside but good management speak to captain/player then next offence if short period then card and say 7 pen there , there now here. You will decide on game level etc what time periods you run to but earlier the better for a good flowing game and be consistent with you calls.
At most levels of game anyone with any understanding will have an idea that repeat offences is a team card and not an individual one.
 

lawsons

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O.B. I'd expect you to count them (as has every assessor I've had) - you have a clipboard and pen for that reason ! I've never seen a ref mark down penalty decisions on a card etc so either they are remembering them in their head or not counting. If they are remembering them in their head and can accurately match your score at the end of the match, then they are better than I am.

I still don't know what good it does you though. As a tool for an assessor, I can understand its worth "5 penalties in 10 mins in the second half, all within the 22, and no yellow ? please explain. "

I too would expect to be able to point out a succession of penalties to a skipper as I'm looking for trends within the game am I marking them down or counting them, no.
 

crossref


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I don't/can't count penalties while i am reffing, and I know i don't have the tackle-by-tackle memory for a game that some people have.

but i find that I have always remembered those incidents people want to discuss - so I reckon I am noticing the main points of the game- even if not always correct with what I did :eek:
 

OB..


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O.B. I'd expect you to count them (as has every assessor I've had) - you have a clipboard and pen for that reason ! I've never seen a ref mark down penalty decisions on a card etc so either they are remembering them in their head or not counting. If they are remembering them in their head and can accurately match your score at the end of the match, then they are better than I am.

I still don't know what good it does you though. As a tool for an assessor, I can understand its worth "5 penalties in 10 mins in the second half, all within the 22, and no yellow ? please explain. "

I too would expect to be able to point out a succession of penalties to a skipper as I'm looking for trends within the game am I marking them down or counting them, no.
How you deal with it is up to you. I do not expect refs to have an accurate count overall - all that really matters is noting the sort of trend that should lead to cards. If you are missing significant trends it may hold back your progress. If you are picking them up, well done.
 
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