Repeated Infringements

Lee Lifeson-Peart


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I work on if there's a few in quick succession then invariably I can remember what they're for and where they were. Where my crap system fails is when both teams are perhaps doing it alternately!
 

ex-lucy


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i was AR last night in a L7 uni match ... assessor asked us as a TO3 .. how many pens do you think there were? ... i reckoned 17... ref said 15 .. other AR is a bit of a novice so he said 20... assessor said 27 incl FKs and not-10s !!
27 !! jeez !
seems that i am not a good counter of pks and FKs ..

but when assessor then went thru a few decisions, we all remembered them and gave a good account .
we also went thru the trends and were able to remember periods/ trends ..

good lesson
 

Bill Lee


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Sound advice given by duncanb & OB.. (posts 16 & 17) One of the difficulties with a discussion on the management of persistent infringements is that referees at the different levels /grades, with considerable differences in both playing & refereeing experience will have different views on how best to remember / record / monitor / analyse the penalty count in any given game. Don't forget that it is a fairly common practice for advisers / Assessors to show the penalty count per quarter which can give referees a guide as to how quickly control was achieved or not achieved. No adviser watching a L10 referee would expect much more than a reactive approach to how he deals with infringements. However, the same level of referee who has played at L6 and above is much more aware of the importance of control & communication via punitive and preventative measures. Alarm bells should mentally start ringing when a group of infringements, by one player or side, have occurred in a short space of time. The Yellow card is there to be used by referees as a management tool and any L7 referee who dishes out 30 to 40penalties without recourse to cards will be unlikely to make it to L6.
However, cards should never be dished out willy-nilly, I think it was either Dixie or Dickie E who emphasised that there is a build up to a card with warnings to player/captain who will be left in no doubt as to what action will follow should that side ignore the referees preventative calls. This approach is frquently described as ....both cards were well sold. The opposite to this is deemed to be pulling rabbits out of a hat....suddenly branishing a card without a sequence of warnings can indicate that a referee is losing it.

Now in defence of Assessors, yes we do sit in a stand with stopwatch & clipboard etc & produce data but this is for the benefit of the referee who will need this ...and his own coach ...and video man as he moves up the ladder. I have just looked at a copy of a senior RFU assessors report...and the data collection is quite something... not something I could aspire to. Its horses for courses for all of us.

PS. Just received the JP Lennard SU570 stop watches with clipboard attachments. Face is approximately 2" dia and numbers height about 0.5"

Lastly, a suggestion to lawsons P18. I would suggest you bounce your ideas / thoughts off one of your society's L6 or L5 referees. Whats their take on this.
I was going to go fishing this afternoon.....thats another salmon I didn't catch.

Bill Lee
 

Davet

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A lot of memory comes down to experience.

When you first start refereeing then you are concentrating second by second, if by the fraction of a second - and the brain won't retain all the data - it comes out as blur. As you get to do things more automatically - and it's like driving a car in many ways, an experienced drived isn't worrying about correcting steering while changing gear and looking the mirror - then you will start to retain a better sense of the whole.

That's when you should start to think about the types of offence being committed, by which side and by whom in particular. Start to notice that you only ever reset the scrum on green put-in - when its blue's ball it's always rock steady, why? All these things can be thought about once you stop struggling to run and shout at the same time...:)
 

djones


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It can be tricky.

3 infringements in 1st 10 minutes - general warning to skipper. Next offence 40 minutes later - YC?

It's really about reading the tone of the game rather than keeping precise count. 4 offences in the space of 10 minutes is more serious than 6 over the course of the game.

3 infringements in first 10 mins for same type of offence is YC no need for another

2 offences is a warning to skipper
 

OB..


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3 infringements in first 10 mins for same type of offence is YC no need for another

2 offences is a warning to skipper

Law 10.3 (b) and (c) both say the referee decides how many (though (c) is a real muddle).
 

ex-lucy


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ok
so 3 or 4 offences (depending on level of game) at the breakdown in first 5 mins is a YC for repeat offence (after appropriate escalations/warnings etc)...

next step ?

i.e.
kick off by blue.... caught by red 4 .. goes to ground ... holding on ... PK (1)
kicked to touch by blue (red 22m line)
tapped and passed out from line out ....
tackle in the centres ... not releasing tackled player .. pk (2)
kicked to touch by blue (red 5m line)
tapped and passed out from line out ....
tackle in the centres ... not releasing tackled player .. pk (3)
decision ? PK nr definite 3 pts to blue and YC for red centre

kick off by red .. blue catches ... runs it back to half way line
tackled .. -> ruck
red 8 comes in the side ...

decision for L8 league match?
decision for L12 match?
 

Dixie


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{Immediately following Red centre's YC for repeated team offending:}
kick off by red .. blue catches ... runs it back to half way line
tackled .. -> ruck
red 8 comes in the side ...

decision for L8 league match?
decision for L12 match?

If we were all top flight refs, we'd have remembered to ensure that the Red skipper had a word with his players to stop the breakdown offences. For me, at either L.8 or L.12, whether or not I did issue the warning with the YC, I think I'd award the PK with last warning to skipper. The "in at the side" is a qualitatively different offence to the "failure to release" which constituted the repeated offending. I would not red card at this stage for repeatedly engaging in repeat offending. Technically, the law requires that "repeat offending" involves the same offence. I'm happy to group similar offences together so that a cyncial side can't circumvent the intent of the law, but I won't take such liberties with qualitatively different offences (one deliberate, the other technical) by different sections of the team to send of a player for the rest of the game.
 
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