[Scrum] Replacement for front row

[Shelflife]

Blue team submit a team sheet with 20 players listed.


They list a replacement hooker no 16 (starts on the bench) and they list the replacement prop as no 2 (the starting hooker).


If the hooker gets injured and goes off the blue team are no longer in a position to meet the criteria of having a replacement prop at first time of asking.


So is this situation do we allow them to have 5 subs until the situation above happens and then reduce their squad to 18 or do we reduce the squad size at the very start.


Or do we just let them have a squad of 20 for the whole game.

 

[Rich_NL]

Possibly depends on your local regulations, but I've never seen anything like that. It's about the number of replacements on the bench - so they start with 18.

 

[didds]

AFAIK compettion rules will state how many they have on a bench. And they need to provide a STE FR at the first time of asking etc.

How they get there - or not! - is their problem.

didds

 

[Christy]

a replacement front row player , cant start in any position of the starting 3 front rows .
so they only allowed 3 subs .

if age grade . i would & have advised offending team sheet coach .
and advise he clears same with opposition coach .
{ kids playing rugby being the ethos here } .

if opposition coach says no .
as its age grade in irfu land .
the players can still come on as replacements only { as any player in age grade who gets injured can be replaced only once } .

so they can now technically roll 3 subs { as rolling subs are now permitted at youth in irfu land }
and they { IF A PLAYER GET INJURED } can also make a replacement change . with 2 lads who are spare

but the main answer is as above .
a starting front row player ,,cant be a front row placement

 

[SimonSmith]

Why are we looking at players on the bench and not ST&E FR players, regardless of starting position?

 

[Camquin]

Law 3.5(b) specifies the minimum number of front row players for a given squad size.
Though a union may make specific regulations that overrule it.

They had 4 front row players in the squad, so are only permitted a maximum of 18 players.

Apart from the starting front row, the remaining STE players may be on the bench or may start in another position.
But you do not get to count a player twice because they cover two positions.

 

[DocY]

It'll be specific to the competition, but it sounds like they're trying to double count the starting hooker.

It's the same thing as if replacement hooker was starting and they said "we can have an extra replacement, because we've got a guy on the bench who can play two positions".

 

[Rich_NL]

Apart from the starting front row, the remaining STE players may be on the bench or may start in another position.
But you do not get to count a player twice because they cover two positions.

Indeed, I misspoke and this is the case.

 

[Phil E]

They had 4 front row players in the squad, so are only permitted a maximum of 18 players.

You don't look at how many FR a team has and then decide how many people are on the team.
It's the other way round, otherwise both teams would be different sizes? :shrug:

 

[Pinky]

You don't look at how many FR a team has and then decide how many people are on the team.
It's the other way round, otherwise both teams would be different sizes? :shrug:

The law makes you do that, although most competition rules will also describe the number of subs. For me the biggest issue is whether a team gets any subs if they don't have any front row cover.

 

[Phil E]

The law makes you do that, although most competition rules will also describe the number of subs. For me the biggest issue is whether a team gets any subs if they don't have any front row cover.

The law states that if your squad size is X, then you must have Y front row players in that squad.

Local regulations may limit the size of a squad (if they say you can only have 3 subs then its a squad size of 18).

If you don't have front row cover the game still goes ahead and you can still have your subs, but you will probably forfeit the game under local league regulations.

In the same way if you are using interchanges then the number of interchanges isn't affected if you have less than the number of subs stipulated. i.e. where I am if you have 3 subs, then you get 8 interchanges. But if you only have 1 sub then you still get 8 interchanges.

 

[Shelflife]

Cheers Camquin clarified the position perfectly, coach tried hard to make the case that they had 2 replacements so they met the requirements, I stood my ground and said as it stood they could only have a squad of 18.

They then made a change and listed another FR player.

Coach trying to be too smart !

 

[crossref]

Every single competition I ref in has different regulations regarding numbers of subs , front row players and circumstances when man off applies .
Within a single competition, dfferent rules apply to different divisions, and different ones again in the playoffs
Penalties for not having front row subs range from forfeit , to playing with points penalty to nothing at all
No two competitions are the same

I suppose it's ok, it's only the refs who have to go from competition to competition, checking the regs each week , but it does lead to some confusion sometimes



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[didds]

well Id presume the coach/captain/manager at least checks the regs to see what he she can or cannot do - if only to make sure the oppo don;t get away with something!

didds