ruck in goal

[Dickie E]

It happens a lot at age grade, and almost every time a defender in the guard position dives on it, which feels normal to me... at present I am not penalising it, but maybe I should be, hence my earlier question.

So what will you do next time you encounter it?

 

[Locke]

It happens a lot at age grade, and almost every time a defender in the guard position dives on it, which feels normal to me... at present I am not penalising it, but maybe I should be, hence my earlier question.

For whatever it’s worth, I now penalize this every time I see it. I don’t referee age grade often, but have penalized it there also.

 

[didds]

For whatever it’s worth, I now penalize this every time I see it. I don’t referee age grade often, but have penalized it there also.

do the players "understand" (whether AG or seniors) ? Or do they just look confused and walk back with a "WTF was that about" look and a shrug?

that's not to say your are not correct of course. Im more intrigued as to the bigger picture TBH - in 40+ years of playing & coaching (and a few more now just watching!) I have never saw this pinged once. But I have seen players diving on loose balls in the vicinity of rucks, mauls, scrums etc ALL the time, to tidy up a loose and messy ball.

Hence my query above about what exactly is the purpose of this law - what is its rationale? I wonder if its from some very ancient time when there was a point, the game moved on, changed dramatically, but the law never got removed cos law changes a million years ago only ever happened about every twenty years, so everybody had forgotten vwhy it was there.

didds

 

[Dickie E]

Hence my query above about what exactly is the purpose of this law - what is its rationale? I wonder if its from some very ancient time when there was a point, the game moved on, changed dramatically, but the law never got removed cos law changes a million years ago only ever happened about every twenty years, so everybody had forgotten vwhy it was there.

didds

the clarification I posted is from 2022 so certainly the law has currency.

the way I see it is a ruck is intrinsically a messy phase of play. The "powers that be" want to see the ball played away from the ruck (either pick up or kick) & don't want to add to the messiness by allowing players to go to ground nearby to the ruck. I support that view.

 

[Volun-selected]

the troublesome scenario is when the ruck is in FoP, and the the ball emerges and cross the goal line -- so it's emerging, and moving, and near (<1m) from the ruck, but in goal. Can you dive on it? 15.16 says no, but common sense says yes.

If this happens then for me once the ball passes the goal line, it’s fair play to dive on to ground, or scoop and run. Since on the goal line or in-goal the ruck is dead - and cannot re-form or even exist now - so first to the ball decides what happens next.

 

[crossref]

If this happens then for me once the ball passes the goal line, it’s fair play to dive on to ground, or scoop and run. Since on the goal line or in-goal the ruck is dead - and cannot re-form or even exist now - so first to the ball decides what happens next.

Once the ball is out the ruck is always over. 5.16 is always about a ball that emerged from an ex-ruck

 

[Locke]

do the players "understand" (whether AG or seniors) ? Or do they just look confused and walk back with a "WTF was that about" look and a shrug?

…

Hence my query above about what exactly is the purpose of this law - what is its rationale? I wonder if its from some very ancient time when there was a point, the game moved on, changed dramatically, but the law never got removed cos law changes a million years ago only ever happened about every twenty years, so everybody had forgotten vwhy it was there.

didds

Most of the teams around here are aware of it now. I explain it when I penalize it and it rarely happens again in the same game.

I agree it’s a bit jobsworthy of a penalty but I do like that it prevents the messiness Dickie is talking about. You’ve already got a mess of bodies in the ruck area, both on and off feet. Then the ball squirts out and a couple more bodies dive for it, immediately several things become even messier, such as who is already in this new tackle/ruck area, where is the gate, and who is onside and what their responsibilities are before they can ruck or try to play the ball. People are coming in from weird angles. Diving/falling on a ball a foot from a ruck just doesn’t seem to promote good contest or other positive play from my perspective. It’s obviously not inherently unsportsmanlike or anything but I appreciate the way the law in question seems to keep it cleaner.

 

[didds]

Its not a hill I'll die on but its just all seems a bit heavy handed. Everywhere else on the pitch to AVOID messy scenarios players are EXPECTED to dive on a loose ball. And players diving on a ball 1m from the last ruck is no different to somebody starting to pick it, getting tackled within 1m of the previous ruck and a new ruck starting.
But as I say - its not a hill I'll die on. It is what it is.
I've still NEVER seen it penalised in 47 years of watching/playing rugby union

 

[Ciaran Trainor]

Ive still NEVER seen it penallised in 47 years of watching/playing rugby union

You surprise me Didds. I would say at least once a month I would penalise this scenario.
Usually a shrug of the shoulders from the player, an explanation from me and off we go.

 

[didds]

True. never. Im very aware of the law, and have been "for ever". I just assumed it was a law on paper that gets ignored - like crooked scrum feeds, especially up the levels, and blocking the catcher from a kick off.