Same Old.......

[Stuartg]

This is a very general view and quick - as I have a nice Malbec opened and breathing.

In all cases I assume full law knowledge, and basic empathy for what the players are doing.

The step from 9 to 8 is not great for a referee with decent management skills, and general fitness.

The one from 8 to 7 is a big one in management (communication and control) and the game starts getting quicker with fewer errors and much longer cycles of play.

From 7 to 6 nothing in the matches happens by mistake, the management challenge is much higher, spotting trends, escalating and getting early match compliance are crucial. Speed of play and physicality goes up yet again, so the referee must be physically very fit, and mentally attuned at all times with an all round awareness of everything happening on the pitch, and increasing levels of preventative management.

At L5 match speed is up again by a significant amount, major challenges at scrum and breakdown are encountered, consistency is essential, 100% accuracy required, and adaptability to tactical changes in the match. More preventative management, quick judgement and decisions, plus very good fitness levels.

The step up in management, skill and fitness is not simple step each time but increasing at each level, which reflects the standard of players and the games overall.

Enjoy the wine.

But why the use of the words linear and exponential?

 

[Simon Thomas]

Enjoy the wine.

But why the use of the words linear and exponential?

As the curves of expectation, difficulty, fitness, performance, etc are exponential (steeper at the higher grades) and not a straight linear growth.

 

[Browner]

This is a very general view and quick - as I have a nice Malbec opened and breathing.

In all cases I assume full law knowledge, and basic empathy for what the players are doing.

The step from 9 to 8 is not great for a referee with decent management skills, and general fitness.

The one from 8 to 7 is a big one in management (communication and control) and the game starts getting quicker with fewer errors and much longer cycles of play.

From 7 to 6 nothing in the matches happens by mistake, the management challenge is much higher, spotting trends, escalating and getting early match compliance are crucial. Speed of play and physicality goes up yet again, so the referee must be physically very fit, and mentally attuned at all times with an all round awareness of everything happening on the pitch, and increasing levels of preventative management.

At L5 match speed is up again by a significant amount, major challenges at scrum and breakdown are encountered, consistency is essential, 100% accuracy required, and adaptability to tactical changes in the match. More preventative management, quick judgement and decisions, plus very good fitness levels.

The step up in management, skill and fitness is not simple step each time but increasing at each level, which reflects the standard of players and the games overall.

No wonder all the top refs get criticised by xplayers and journos - they clearly got to their skilled position via merely applying for the job, not a long and detailed assessment process rife with scrutiny ! :sarc:

 

[Stuartg]

As the curves of expectation, difficulty, fitness, performance, etc are exponential (steeper at the higher grades) and not a straight linear growth.

But that doesn't make the curve exponential. There are many, many curves with the same property, namely an increasing gradient. Exponential growth has an increasing gradient, but increasing gradient does not necessarily mean exponential growth. Camels (usually) have four legs but a four legged animal isn't necessarily a camel.

The word exponential is greatly misunderstood and seems to be assigned to any situation where growth accelerates. For an exponential curve we require that equal steps on the x-axis means that the value of y increases or decreases by a constant ratio.

We often hear that the world's population is growing exponentially, this is gibberish. It isn't - it growing faster than exponentially.

 

[Simon Thomas]

But that doesn't make the curve exponential. There are many, many curves with the same property, namely an increasing gradient. Exponential growth has an increasing gradient, but increasing gradient does not necessarily mean exponential growth. Camels (usually) have four legs but a four legged animal isn't necessarily a camel.

The word exponential is greatly misunderstood and seems to be assigned to any situation where growth accelerates. For an exponential curve we require that equal steps on the x-axis means that the value of y increases or decreases by a constant ratio.

We often hear that the world's population is growing exponentially, this is gibberish. It isn't - it growing faster than exponentially.

LOL - I am just a sporting jock Geographer from Jesus and for 35 years a Mad not Math Man.

So apologies for not using the term exponential correctly in pure mathematical terms but I think I communicated my point effectively enough.

 

[dave_clark]

But that doesn't make the curve exponential. There are many, many curves with the same property, namely an increasing gradient. Exponential growth has an increasing gradient, but increasing gradient does not necessarily mean exponential growth. Camels (usually) have four legs but a four legged animal isn't necessarily a camel.

The word exponential is greatly misunderstood and seems to be assigned to any situation where growth accelerates. For an exponential curve we require that equal steps on the x-axis means that the value of y increases or decreases by a constant ratio.

We often hear that the world's population is growing exponentially, this is gibberish. It isn't - it growing faster than exponentially.

sounds like maths pedantry. as a pedant (who would like to be better at maths than i am), i say well done!

:biggrin:

 

[OB..]

To a mathematician, the word "exponential" has a specific meaning. To the general pubiic it means (if anything at all) a steeply rising curve.

Have you ever tried talking to a layman about a Normal distribution?

"Exponential" is general use of a specialist term. "Normal" is specialist use of a general term. Go figure.

 

[Rushforth]

http://www.worldometers.info/world-population/#growthrate

We often hear that the world's population is growing exponentially, this is gibberish. It isn't - it growing faster than exponentially.

Actually it isn't any more - http://www.worldometers.info/world-population/#growthrate. As you can see, the second derivative has been decreasing at a roughly linear rate since before 1970.

Exponential growth - whether it be 10^x, e^x, 2^x, 1.02^x, 1.01^x or even 1.000000001^x - is characterised by each and every derivative also being also being of the form k^x.

To return this to the frame of reference of refereeing, it is clear that there are multiple "levels" at which referee fitness needs to improve beyond the average, and similarly that various other competencies need to improve. frrrrrrrrrrr/;'/;'/;'/;'/;'/;'/;'/;'/;'/;'/;'/;'/;'/;'/;'/;'/;'/;'/;'/;'/;'lll=\][=

Also, my cat wants to lie on the keyboard now.

 

[Taffy]

I'm grateful for all the comments here. I've taken a lot from it. I note Simon's comments about the buddy system. I did propose it informally to our President, but was a bit side swiped. I realise that getting refs to get out on the field is hard, to get even more commitment is even harder, but as mad as it sounds, I have been told that one grade a year is normal (OK, might not be automatic), but inevitably there is more concentration on younger refs. I realise that I am never going to ref a World Cup Final (not even in anyones wildest dreams ever), but these young people starting now, might well and good luck to them! Who was it who said "You were the future once?!

But... I have taken a lot from this thread, thanks for that.

 

[Accylad]

Taffy a little advice if I may. (Background - 43 when did first adult game, now 50, two and a half seasons at 6)

Don't focus on grade. Focus on getting better. When you do it will be noticed and you will go up. Be patient and trust the system. If you work hard enough and listen and filter the advice you get and apply it levels will improve.

Accept L5 is never going to happen. Simon T had much wisdom in his first post.

I don't know how fit you are but the couple or so of us over 50 refs up here in Glos are in the gym 2/3 times a week to strive for L5 fitness as we continue to challenge ourselves. We also spend a bit on physio to keep the legs going!

You seem prepared to work at it so good luck and relax and enjoy the ride!!

 

[Dickie E]

my wife is a primary school teacher in the specialist area of literacy.

She doesn't take pride in working with the brightest, best and easiest to teach.

She takes prides in working with the "leftovers" - kids with little or no English, kids whose parents have no interest in their development, kids with learning disabilities, kids with behavioural issues, etc.

I guesss I take a similar view in my refereeing.

If you can get a rugby game out of a 30-man rabble, then you're as valuable a referee as Craig Joubert.

 

[Pegleg]

It is logical that you invest in the areas that you expect greatest return. So younger refs are going to be given the greater opportunities. It happens everywhere in life. Why invest £10000 in a project that is going to give 5 years value whe nyou cna do the same and get 20 years?

The problem is not the targeting of resources at the younger refs. It is the poor targeting for "politically correct" reasons. We have clear examples of a few very good 40ish refs getting overlooked in favour of some 18/19 year olds who just have not got it. We also have some women who are being promoted because they are women. They've never played and just don't understand the game. Granted given time they may become good referees but let's have the develop them at the right pace. don't for get pushing someone for the wrong reason my drive them away as they will feel may feel out of hteir depth. Clubs are very open in their comments about some of these guys / ladies. It does nobody any favours.

I have no ambition in refereeing other than to enjoy my games and to try and help the players enjoy their games. I like to be complemented on my game (I'd not be human if I did not). Do I want to step up a league or two? I'd like to be considered good enough to do so. I'd also be happy to help out with the odd game but to be honest I'm probably looking to step back a little . My health was seriously hit a year or so ago and I just cannot do the work to push on with my fitness. The pain is too great. I would guess I have 3 or 4 years left in me and who knows assessing may be the next step. I know a lot of refs dislike assessments. I find them useful. I look at their comments and look past the, daft, "3 areas for development" mantra that is the flavour of the day around here.

 

[Browner]

If you can get a rugby game out of a 30-man rabble, then you're as valuable a referee as Craig Joubert.

Valuable

adjective

• 1.
  worth a great deal of money.

noun

• 1.
  a thing that is of great worth, especially a small item of personal property.
  
  
  
  
  
  

 

[TheBFG]

I often see L6 referees doing u14 matches .... how do they ever cope with the different skill/standards??!!!??

Next week I have a juicy L6 (3rd v 4th in the league) last Saturday I had a L8 2nd from bottom v mid table and week after next I'm back to the same ground as the L6 game to do a L10! I don't have a problem transferring between the leagues, you just have to remember as you go up the grades certain things are expected!

 

[Browner]

Next week I have a juicy L6 (3rd v 4th in the league) last Saturday I had a L8 2nd from bottom v mid table and week after next I'm back to the same ground as the L6 game to do a L10! I don't have a problem transferring between the leagues, you just have to remember as you go up the grades certain things are expected!

Black'er boots , & bigger balls !

 

[Wedgie]

After an extensive running in period reffing the mini/midi team I was coaching, I am now in my 3rd season of Society reffing and mid 40s. I am L11, and want to move up, but can only do <2 matches a month due to other commitments. So if it is ever going to happen it is going to take a while.

Having said that, the 2 matches I have enjoyed the most over the past 2+ seasons were a U13s match where the rugby was so pure it was a joy to see and a IIs vs IIIs L13 (pretty much Vets match) end up 47-5 but the 28 players (yes) were out for a laugh and dragged me along with them.

There is fun to be had most places.

(I'll not mention the buggers from last week, though. That was ****)