[Line out] Saracens vs Munster European Rugby Champions Cup

[L'irlandais]

Sideline scuffle, as hooker loses his calm with opposition medic.

To be honest, I am far more interested in what we think about the French referee’s use of the whistle and decision to penalize Black 10 for getting involved. In some respects it was all a thing of nothing. Further details online. Red missed the subsequent penalty, so the choice to penalize Black 10 didn’t gift 3 points to the also offending team.

What’s the medic doing outside the technical area? (He had been on the pitch moments before, but didn’t look like he was returning to the technical area in the replay.) Why did Black 2 kick the ball towards him? & have this angry exchange?

 

[Shelflife]

Too much whistle for me.

Ive no problem with him penalising black 10 as he did run in from a distance to get involved.

Basically he wanted a pen at that point because restarting the game with a scrum or a lineout immediately after a scuffle will only lead to more of the same.

 

[L'irlandais]

Yes I agree restarting with a lineout would not have ended well. But most of Munster’s backs had also run in to join the fray. Perhaps he was getting fed-up with Owen Farrell constantly bending his ear all game. Not really painting the right pictures in the match referee’s mind was he?

Blowing repeatedly like that wasn’t helping anything.[LAWS]Referee: Pascal Gauzère
Assistant Referee 1: Maxime Chalon
AR2: Jonathan Dufort
TMO: Eric Gauzins
Citing Commissioner: Stefano Marrama
[/LAWS]

Red captain came close to getting a yellow card later for repeated team offenses in the red zone. Perhaps his tactic of keeping his mouth shut helped him there.

 

[beckett50]

The rumour is that the Munster physio made reference to Jamie George's weight in a less than flattering way.

Farrell is the Captain and so will speak to the referee. As a team Saracens want to know how they can improve in phase play and the captain - whoever it is on the day - will seek clarification from the referee to ensure that the offence is not repeated.

 

[L'irlandais]

Not sure if you watched the game or the short replay. Owen Farrell wouldn’t let the match referee alone.
[LAWS]Tag rugby laws: All players must respect the authority of the referee. They must not dispute the referee’s decisions. They must stop playing at once when the referee blows the whistle except at starts and restarts. The captain is the only player who can make a comment to the referee.[/LAWS]The team captain may raise a concern with the match referee, however OF is NOT entitled to dispute the referee’s decision for two whole bloody minutes. He chatter was incessant. the full 80 minutes he would not let it lie. While you kinda come to expect it from yappy nines, not so much from the team captain. Hardly professional behaviour. Leinster’s Jonathan Sexton has a similar whingy approach with refs.

If the team of four had ensured that Red medic had returned to the technical area asap the whole incident could have been avoided. I am unaware what the doctor might have said. However I am of the opinion the hooker should not have been aggressively threatening to a member of the opposition’s coaching staff either.

Black 2 is twice the size of the medic, surely a curt “Shut your trap, midget! Before someone shuts it for you.“ would have sufficed. Instead of taking offense.

 

[Decorily]

........While you kinda come to expect it from yappy nines, not so much from the team captain. Hardly professional behaviour.

....... the hooker should not have been aggressively threatening to a member of the opposition’s coaching staff either.

......Shut your trap, midget! Before someone shuts it for you.“ would have sufficed. Instead of taking offense.

Mixed messages from you there!!!!

 

[Flish]

Would like to have seen from a bit earlier, but as Jamie George is walking away you hear the ref blow his whistle and shout ‘come here’ and then it kicks off, so whatever happened there it seemed significant enough to warrant the refs involvement - did he take action after the handbags?

 

[L'irlandais]

If you listen the referee’s chat with both captains afterwards, he tells Red there is no high tackle, and the restart should be a lineout, except Black 10 had run in to get involved from so far away, that now the restart was to be a penalty against Black 10 for getting involved.

So he didn’t properly address the handbags. Needless to say the niggle didn’t go away by itself.

 

[Balones]

I am not fully up to date with European Rugby regs but as far as I know in RFU land medics and physios are not tied to being in the technical area. This is because of the need to act swiftly if necessary or to monitor players that may be carrying injuries during the game.

 

[L'irlandais]

You may be right, he might have been heading toward a suspected high tackle/jersey scragged, only to realise the player was fine.

Champions Cup organisers are investigating the incident.

Munster say they do not know what caused the fight, while a statement from organisers European Professional Club Rugby (EPCR) said: "Information will now be sought from the match officials and from both clubs, and EPCR will be making no further comment until the investigation has been conducted.

In any case Black 2 kicks the ball into touch, at the medic’s feet and as he bends down to pick it up a heated discussion ensues.

 

[crossref]

In any case Black 2 kicks the ball into touch, at the medic’s feet and as he bends down to pick it up a heated discussion ensues.

perhaps it's another example of medics interfering with play by touching the ball (thus preventing a QTI).

 

[L'irlandais]

In the other match it was the water carrier deliberately getting up off his seat to touch the ball in flight as a defender jumped to catch it.

Look at 2 minutes 47 seconds into the video clip and you can see for yourself it is most definitely not the medic who touches the ball in any way to prevent a quick throw in. Black 2 kicks the ball toward the medic, so no. No quick throw on, as Black 2 is alone. If you look carefully, the line of touch is two meters short of Black’s 22. The hooker is 10 meters further up field toward Munster’s goalline. So definitely not in a position to take a QTI. His nonchalant kick of the ball looks suspiciously like an attempt to buttonhole the opposition medic. This will all come out in the wash, given how frustrated Sarries were at that point in the game, I’d say it’s 50/50.

 

[L'irlandais]

The other thing that must surely be troubling Saracens is the poor attendance 8,500 (the majority of whom were Munster’s traveling support, yet again.) Cast your memory back to their semifinal against Munster earlier this year, only 4,000 Sarries fans showed up at The Ricoh. (The official attendance was 16,235 in that 33,000 all-seater stadium. So over 12,000 Red army supporters.) Munster had over 25,000 last week when Saracens lost in Limerick and even more than that for their home game against Racing Métro in Round two.

Leinster had 42,000 this weekend. English clubs pay well over the odds for their star players, but don’t appear to have the gate to justify such investment.

 

[Dickie E]

Red 7 was as naughty as anyone. I would have restarted with the lineout. Handbags (or as the commentator says "manbags") only.

 

[L'irlandais]

That’s Jack O'Donoghue.
Captain Peter O’Mahony pulled up in the warm up.
So Jack, who was initially named (20) on the bench was given a start at 7. :chair:

He spent a long time on the sidelines (9 months of that recovering from injury) so he was spoiling for a fight.

 

[didds]

Too much whistle for me.

Ive no problem with him penalising black 10 as he did run in from a distance to get involved.

Basically he wanted a pen at that point because restarting the game with a scrum or a lineout immediately after a scuffle will only lead to more of the same.

so kick the ball out form the PK and ... errr... take a lineout?

didds

 

[Flish]

Have to admit I struggle with the concept of 'finding a penalty', must be too honest! Had a bit of a wrestle off the ball after a ruck the other week, ball was gone, no idea what started it, couldn't leave it alone, so I blew up, strong word and restarted with a scrum to the team in possession who were moving forward.

I was advised to find a penalty to avoid a restart with the players in such close proximity - and I get the logic - but I couldn't see who I could penalise without pissing off and losing credibility with one of the teams?

 

[Marc Wakeham]

Well there is a PK offence if there is a scuffle. If it is pretty near 50:50, give the PK to the side Least likely to score from it.

 

[Skids]

The inference of the medic calling into question Jamie George's weight which subsequently led to the kerfuffle came from a BT Sport interview with Alex Sanderson, one of the Saracens coaching staff, shortly after the incident. At least that's my understanding from watching the programme live.

 

[Balones]

I wonder if context is the issue. If Jamie George had gone into the medic’s surgery and was told bluntly that his weight was a matter of concern for his health would he have reacted similarly? Perhaps the medic was speaking out of genuine professional concern? As things stand it’s probable that 99% of professional rugby players nowadays have a BMI above a healthy state based on the official charts.