Scoreline getting out of hand

Greig

New member
Joined
May 29, 2012
Messages
49
Post Likes
0
Current Referee grade:
Select Grade
The only answer is a mandatory no-side at (say) 50 points difference (maybe with some basic caveats), with a 50-0 walkover score awarded.

In the junior comp here in Sydney, the rules mandate that the recorded score of the winning team at the end of the game can be no more than 50 points greater than the losing team score. ie if a team wins 70-5, then the recorded score is 55-5.

This means that when a 50 point differnetial is recorded, then game may continue, or not, at the coaches/players dicretion without impacting on the comp pointscore. This means coaches gain nothing by subjecting opposing teams to a 140-0 humiliation in order to improve their for/against ratio.

Further the competition has a voluntary "mercy rule", where at 40 points differential the winning team removes a player, and at 50 points diff another player is removed. This encourages games to continue to completion, and give all the players a good run.
 

Browner

Banned
Joined
Jan 20, 2012
Messages
6,000
Post Likes
270
so what reg, rukle or law FORCES a referee (an individual) to referee a match?

The laws as writ permit the match to continue. It doesn't mean the initial/original bloke with the whistle HAS to referee it.

??????

didds

Of course Didds, volunteers CAN withdraw their labour at any time, but the RFU clearly permit ( expect?) continuance of fixture IF coaches agree, and its encumbant on a referee to show respect for that regulation.

If a referee walks off because he disagrees with the 'authority' of the regs, then which reg next ?!? ...it doesnt paint him in a good light. If something is outside the regs then thats a different matter, but this isn't.


Its up to the coach to sort out the arrangements - not you. You just ref under the mantra of "safety, equity, law.
 
Last edited:

Dixie


Referees in England
Joined
Oct 26, 2006
Messages
12,773
Post Likes
338
Its up to the coach to sort out the arrangements - not you. You just ref under the mantra of "safety, equity, law.
Agreed. But if you and the coach disagree about what is safe (many would consider that members of a deflated team suffering a thrashing are not as safe on the field as a team that is competing well), then the referee can decline to continue without in any way deviating from the regulation, and without having to choose which regs to adopt and which to avoid.
 

Chris_j


Referees in England
Joined
May 11, 2012
Messages
83
Post Likes
31
Current Referee grade:
Level 7
Hi Browner,
Junior NLD league games stop at 50 clear points. See NLD U13-U19 Competition rules, rule 23. You may then agree to play on but the score is recorded at the 50 clear points.

http://sitemanager.nldrfu.co.uk/fil...LD U13-19 Competition Rules v3 28-05-2014.pdf



23. When the difference in scores between the two teams exceeds 50 points the referee will stop the match, as the match will be deemed to be over (games may continue at the discretion of the team coaches but the result must be recorded at the point of 50 points difference being exceeded.)


Don't know if it has happened with your u16s team yet but as a ref I have a couple of games a season where it applies.

Chris
 

Browner

Banned
Joined
Jan 20, 2012
Messages
6,000
Post Likes
270
Agreed. But if you and the coach disagree about what is safe (many would consider that members of a deflated team suffering a thrashing are not as safe on the field as a team that is competing well), then the referee can decline to continue without in any way deviating from the regulation, and without having to choose which regs to adopt and which to avoid.

Safety override was acknowledged Dixie, but I'd say its a big call for any referee unilaterally assessing 'spirit' deflation when he doesn't know the players anywhere near as well as the coaching team or the watching parents.

Competition 'capping' is a separate issue that im not challenging.
But whilst the point has been raised, the team I coach did amass 50 pts with only 25 mins played on one occasion, not our fault competition league/draw forced it, and most of the scores were through speed handling and evasion so opposition weren't battered. We were glad to be able to reduce our numbers and play the remainder of the game by swapping forwards and backs positions, I recall the remainder of the fixture was very competitive , well well worth it, our forwards loved it our backs realised that possession is hard to gain and keep! Opposition players confidence grew, so win win win.

The alternative of ...packing up & leaving to drive 1hr before the nosh was cooked ( empty clubhouse & opposition were goingvto stay out and train ) with most families deeming the whole morning a waste of everyone's effort wasnt desirable to either Coaching team. It would have been a shame if we'd been appointed an overbearing whistler who didn't understand that coaching objectives aren't always soley score dependent.

Crikey, we travelled 1hr 20 mins once and a player forgot his gumshield , the referee mistakenly thought he was 'Required' to send him home without playing ...despite the parent wishing otherwise, such instances are one of the main reason I carry regulations with me, to avoid genuine 'error'
 

Browner

Banned
Joined
Jan 20, 2012
Messages
6,000
Post Likes
270
Hi Browner,
Junior NLD league games stop at 50 clear points. See NLD U13-U19 Competition rules, rule 23. You may then agree to play on but the score is recorded at the 50 clear points.

http://sitemanager.nldrfu.co.uk/fil...LD U13-19 Competition Rules v3 28-05-2014.pdf



23. When the difference in scores between the two teams exceeds 50 points the referee will stop the match, as the match will be deemed to be over (games may continue at the discretion of the team coaches but the result must be recorded at the point of 50 points difference being exceeded.)


Don't know if it has happened with your u16s team yet but as a ref I have a couple of games a season where it applies.

Chris

Hi chris-j
Score ' capping ' in comps isn't the issue, that's accepted. But I can see why some get confused.
Your comp Regs should always allign with rfu IMO. easier to avoid myths being born and reduces across CB border fixture confusions
Thanks though.
 
Last edited:

crossref


Referees in England
Joined
Sep 14, 2009
Messages
21,810
Post Likes
3,148
. We were glad to be able to reduce our numbers and play the remainder of the game by swapping forwards and backs positions, .

that was rather brave of you, considering that at junior levels all of the front FIVE have to be considered STE....
brave. or foolish.
 

Taff


Referees in Wales
Joined
Aug 23, 2009
Messages
6,942
Post Likes
383
that was rather brave of you, considering that at junior levels all of the front FIVE have to be considered STE....
brave. or foolish.
I'm guessing they were uncontested scrums by then.
 

crossref


Referees in England
Joined
Sep 14, 2009
Messages
21,810
Post Likes
3,148
Taff:277360 said:
that was rather brave of you, considering that at junior levels all of the front FIVE have to be considered STE....
brave. or foolish.
I'm guessing they were uncontested scrums by then.


Even in an uncontested scrum you have to play your STE players before any non STE ones
 

Browner

Banned
Joined
Jan 20, 2012
Messages
6,000
Post Likes
270
that was rather brave of you, considering that at junior levels all of the front FIVE have to be considered STE....
brave. or foolish.

Or enlightened?

You mean you don't have a coaching plan to get players multipositional as minis/young juniors ...as per all RFU development L1\2 coachng tut tut....

Anyway, if you get the ref and opposition on board uncontested is a viable alternative in a friendly if you have to, we didn't need to.


TBH with good binding I very rarely see a junior scrum collapse, in fact now I come to mention it I don't think I've ever seen our scrum collapse.
 
Last edited:

medavidcook


Referees in Wales
Joined
Sep 3, 2014
Messages
11
Post Likes
0
In WRU land, I always understood that the game ended if the margin got above 50 points. Do you think I can find that written down anywhere?

The closest I can find is a paragraph in the Pathway booklet that says

Taff you are correct it is 50 points regardless of time elapsed it is in the pathway booklet, can send link if you want it.

I had this issue last year, final game of the season and I said to the coaches before the game that game will be stopped at 50 point margin (looked at results from previous games) and one coach said fine the other said well we need an 80 point gap win to win the league. I argued that I am going to stop at 50 which I did 5 mins into the second half, the coach who wasn't happy reported me to the WRU and got a phone call a week later telling me I done the right thing and not to worry. Then find out I had to do a tournament for said team last week.

I don't see the issue with big gaps its not enjoyable for anyone, people get upset and stop playing the game.
 
Last edited:

Camquin

Rugby Expert
Joined
Mar 8, 2011
Messages
1,653
Post Likes
310
In the Girls matches I have been involved in as a coach we have stopped the league match, but not stopped the rugby.
We have always rejigged and got a proper match going.
In my view that ensure everyone gets game time, and also gives the stronger players the challenge of playing with weaker players and the weaker players the opportunity to see what the better players are doing.

Of course we are trying to build a game. My daughter is moving to a new club again this season as the club she was at does not have enough U18 girls to field a team. It may be a harder sell in the boy's game where most clubs are fielding sides at every age group and often multiple sides.

Camquin
 
Top