Scoreline getting out of hand

[didds]

He's talking out iof his arse.

The "problem" exists with the idiots that have created a junior league that permits 140-0 drubbings, and ends up creating exactly this mindset - when the focus and onus should be on developing players not primarily seeking wins.

didds

 

[didds]

OB nails it.

if in these leagues a walkover is "only" worth a 50-0 points score (if at all!) then a team potentially loses out when they cannot play a team that gets drubbed constantly. That makes a mockery of the situation.

The reverse side of the copin is that a middle table team may ship a PD of 15-20 points to a league leader. one week due to external circumsyances they field a weakened team and ship 70 points PD. That creates another imbalance that is unfair on the other leading teams. Similat scenarios also exist for teams in the relegation zone.

The only answer is a mandatory no-side at (say) 50 points difference (maybe with some basic caveats), with a 50-0 walkover score awarded.



didds

 

[crossref]

our league works that when you get to a 45 points difference that's the end of the game for league purposes, and that's the score that is recorded. If both teams want to finish the game then they can continue, but it doesn't count for the league.

It works well - they most often do continue and in almost all cases I have witnessed the winning coach will then bring on all his remaining subs in order to give them some game time, and takes the opportunity to rest key players.
in consequence the losing team will often scroe a consolation try or two and leave the pitch a lot happier.

 

[FightOrFlight]

He's talking out iof his arse.

The "problem" exists with the idiots that have created a junior league that permits 140-0 drubbings, and ends up creating exactly this mindset - when the focus and onus should be on developing players not primarily seeking wins.

didds

I totally agree with your point. The problem in Leinster anyhow is that it can sometimes be a very small pond containing some very big fish. It's separated into Metro(Dublin area) North East, South East, Midlands etc. In the case of the South East for example there are actually only 2 maybe 3 clubs at a push that have any type of proper setup and so they tend to slaughter(and absorb playing squads at 19s) the smaller clubs around them. You generally see the same clubs top the leagues in those areas across all age grades. The guys who make up the leagues cannot avoid placing them with weaker clubs and there needs to be fixtures as they cant all just play a 3 team tournament.

There also tends to be an element of politics to league placing. Middle Of Nowhere RFC may have a crop of superstars but they will be placed in Div 3/4 at say 14s/15s because they are a small club. They proceed to tonk all other teams for 3/4 years without being promoted too far until MAYBE they are put in Div 1 if a big club is not fielding at 19s. In past years weak clubs have moved outside their area. I know a start up club in Dublin that played in a more rural league as the standard was too high in the metro area but they were still getting smashed by the big boys in the countryside. The branch seems opposed to fixing set leagues for age grade and moving teams up or down through relegation/promotion....most likely because many of the guys on committee want to look after their own club.

 

[OB..]

The only answer is a mandatory no-side at (say) 50 points difference (maybe with some basic caveats), with a 50-0 walkover score awarded.
didds

That still disadvantages the side that "only" scores 49-0. I still prefer the head-to-head as a tiebreaker.

 

[Dickie E]

In our Merit Tables the head to head between tied teams is the first decider, and so far (10 years) has always proved sufficient.

I'm not clear what that means.

Does it mean that if Red and Blue finish equal first then Blue wins because Blue beat Red more often during the season?

 

[crossref]

I'm not clear what that means.

Does it mean that if Red and Blue finish equal first then Blue wins because Blue beat Red more often during the season?

it means that if blue and red finish equal first, then you look at the results of the two games between them.
if one team won both games they win. If they won one each, then take it on points scored in the games.

It's much better than deciding between blue and red on the grounds of how many points they managed to put on hapless Green.
(lets say Red beat them by 242 points in two games, but when blue scored 160 points in the first game, but the second was a walkover and they were awarded a 50 point victory making it 210)

 

[Taff]

I'm not clear what that means.

it means that if blue and red finish equal first, then you look at the results of the two games between them. if one team won both games they win. If they won one each, then take it on points scored in the games.

So a match where one team gets a stuffing can get stopped or adjusted (at say 50 points difference) and it doesn't affect the total points scored decider?

I like it.

 

[menace]

For what it's worth, as exposed above, our junior league places the total points differential "last resort" as the tie breaker....so that it diminishes the need for top teams feeling they have to belt the bottom teams. Ie

"In the event of two or more teams being equal in competition points or performance percentage at the end of the competition rounds, final placings will be decided by:
(A) A higher ranking being awarded to the team which has forfeited less games during the season,
(B) A higher ranking being awarded to the team which has defeated otherwise equally placed teams more often during the season,
(C) Totalling the points scored for and against by the two or more teams level in the competition when those teams met in the competition rounds,
(D) Where one of the teams has forfeited to the other, placing the team against which the forfeit has been recorded behind the other team
(E) If the teams are still equal, totalling the total points scored For and Against during all competition rounds."

Yes it can be overly complex at times to explain this ranking process to people come the end of the season, but it does seem to work out ok. It doesn't stop the drubbing though as some coaches still hunt out the huge wins! Our league had also implemented a mercy rule of sorts this season (similar to what was mentioned in this thread) where a team drops a player each 10 points above 30 differential in an attempt to 'even up' the contest. That has only had limited success too. That is followed up by a regrading system halfway through the season where teams can be moved divisions more suited to their ability. (Personally I'd prefer if our league administrators applied a bit more effort into grading the teams more evenly in the first place for eg using the first few rounds of the season conducting mini round robin contests or such).

 

[Guyseep]

In a senior game if the score gets out of hand I usually ask the losing captain if he/she wants to cut the game short. After that I'll play for another 5 mins or so and call the end of game. The score at that time stands.

In a junior game if the game, if the score is being run up the losing team usually loses motivation and it does get somewhat dangerous as they aren't fully committed to the game. I usually speak to their coach and mention that it might be a good idea to end the game early. I've never had a coach disagree.

 

[Na Madrai]

In the North Mids. in any competition, a juniors' match is over once a fifty point differential has been reached.

I always ask the losing coach if he wishes to carry on and they invariably do so. As stated above, the winning coach will normally play his subs or even lend the weaker side some of his players but the score at the change stands.

I did once have a situation where an established club turned up with a full squad of players for a cup match against a club that struggled to field twelve. Once the score had reached fifty, I doubt twenty minutes had passed, I called the two coaches together for a chin wag to decide what should happen next and the winning coach declined to play on and took his team off and away home - before I had blown for full time!

The powers that be decided that his team had caused the match to be abandoned and awarded the tie to the home club.

I did have a little chortle to meself at this, as the coach had been giving me a bit of stick during what there was of the match.

NM

 

[Dickie E]

it means that if blue and red finish equal first, then you look at the results of the two games between them.
if one team won both games they win. If they won one each, then take it on points scored in the games.

No big deal - they'll still meet each other in the Grand Final

 

[didds]

If ion fact the competition HAS a grand final. On the whole "we" don' have them up here, which is why people can't get their head round the concept that the premiership does not have a league table but a qualification table. You'd think they'd get it after several seasons but i still hear moans that team X "won" the league but lost the premiership.

didds

 

[OB..]

If ion fact the competition HAS a grand final. On the whole "we" don' have them up here, which is why people can't get their head round the concept that the premiership does not have a league table but a qualification table. You'd think they'd get it after several seasons but i still hear moans that team X "won" the league but lost the premiership.

didds

I certainly understand the system, but I still dislike it. In its first year it was a separate competition for the top 8 teams. That gave just about all clubs something to aim for even late in the season. However now we effectively have a marathon decided by a 100m sprint - two different type of competition with only one winner. The original format made much better sense.

More significantly it is totally inappropriate for the Championship to be decided that way. Avoiding relegation from the Premiership means being good enough throughout the season, rain or shine, not in a final knock-out phase at the end in weather that may well suit one team more than another, or when sheer luck may turn the match.

 

[crossref]

No big deal - they'll still meet each other in the Grand Final

that doesn't solve it - we might be talking about Red and Blue finishing equal second, and which one of the goes through to be in the grand final

(or equal 4th, or whatwever - all leagues have to have ways of separating teams on same points)

 

[crossref]

However now we effectively have a marathon decided by a 100m sprint .

that's exactly what a bike road race is ...... and they are great!

 

[Dickie E]

that's exactly what a bike road race is ...... and they are great!

and the FA Cup, and Wimbledon, and the soccer World Cup and rugby World Cup, etc,. etc

 

[Browner]

I suppose that while they may wish to continue the game, nothing is forcing a referee to continue to referee it... ?

didds

If the RFU had wanted the decision to be the referees , they wouldn't have deliberately written the exception into their regs.

Ps..If a 18yr old can be an employed married father who drives, drinks goes to war and votes, then he don't need a 50pt protection rule IMHO!

 

[Browner]

in almost all cases I have witnessed the winning coach will then bring on all his remaining subs in order to give them some game time, and takes the opportunity to rest key players.
in consequence the losing team will often scroe a consolation try or two and leave the pitch a lot happier.

Whoa crossref, a smart coach?, don't dispel the myth that all coaches are numbskulls ! (Sarc)

 

[didds]

If the RFU had wanted the decision to be the referees , they wouldn't have deliberately written the exception into their regs.

so what reg, rukle or law FORCES a referee (an individual) to referee a match?

The laws as writ permit the match to continue. It doesn't mean the initial/original bloke with the whistle HAS to referee it.

??????

didds