Scottish Rugby Union

Daftmedic


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If they leave the union. Would they be allowed to play in a European competition as technically Scotland will not be part of Europe. :chin:
 

crossref


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:chin: as far as rugby is concerned Scotland is already an independant country!
 

Blue Smartie


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Even though you may have tongue in cheek I would suggest that it is highly unlikely that Scotland is going to float off across the Atlantic and as such is inevitably still going to be part of Europe.
As for the economic risks of cessation of membership of the European Union, free trade and movement within the UK etc. that is an entirely different question...
 

Phil E


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I wonder which country will get the contract for rebuilding Hadrian's Wall.
And who gets the tourist rights?
 

Daftmedic


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I wonder which country will get the contract for rebuilding Hadrian's Wall.
And who gets the tourist rights?

I did hear from a Scottish source that they are going to rent the Faslane facility to the Russians
 

Phil E


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I did hear from a Scottish source that they are going to rent the Faslane facility to the Russians

Not if we demolish it when we leave!
 

Daftmedic


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But in all honesty. Scottish players playing in England, Wales and Northern Ireland would have to get non EU residency visa's. Any commonwealth coaches in Scotland would loose commonwealth work visa's as Scotland would have to apply to become a member. So as it turns out, Scotland isn't as independent as one thinks in terms of Rugby.

i know I'm getting down to nitty gritty points, but I'm actually quite worried that people are going to vote yes on smoke and mirrors.
Don't get me wrong on SNP's point we will get the Oil. You won't it's the United Kingdoms not Scotland's as of some strange agreement drawn up over policing waters in 1899bc
 
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crossref


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I don't think the EU would be so foolish as to lose Scotland, Scotland won't be forced out, it's a one-off situation and a solutions to any technical problems will be found one way or another. It's much more likely that the rUK will leave the EU than Scotland.

As regards the Commonwealth, I don't think there is any suggestion that Scotland, with the Queen as head of state, wouldn't be part of the Commonwealth - which is hardly the most difficult club to be a member of. (isn't it a member in its own right anyway),

And on an individual level I am sure even in the event of independence all Scots will retain their right to rUK passport anyway - that's what happened after Irish Indepence : people who were British Subjects at the time of independence did not lose their right to be British. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/British_nationality_law_and_the_Republic_of_Ireland


As regards the oil : I think you are right. the rUK will not relinquish it easily - and the International community would be on their side. If Scotland were able to secede and keep all the oil this would set a very scary precedent as any locality in Africa with a natural resource would be incentivised to declare independance, jettison the rest of the country and keep the resource for itself. It would be a dangerous precedent indeed -- more on this here
http://www.ft.com/cms/s/0/b609d594-97cc-11e3-ab60-00144feab7de.html?siteedition=uk#axzz3Cp4R7J8d
 
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crossref


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Not if we demolish it when we leave!

on a serious note : it will be interesting times if there is a 'yes' vote. I am sure we would immediately see a visible armed presence patrolling the perimeter of Faslane ...
 

RobLev

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I don't think the EU would be so foolish as to lose Scotland, Scotland won't be forced out, it's a one-off situation and a solutions to any technical problems will be found one way or another...

Not quite one-off; neither France nor Spain would be happy to see Scotland getting automatic membership. The treaties are relatively clear that Scotland would need to apply for membership, and those countries (at minimum - Belgium would have to think hard) would insist on Scotland playing by those rules. They don't want to encourage independence movements in Catalonia or the Basque country (or Flanders).
 

crossref


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Not quite one-off; neither France nor Spain would be happy to see Scotland getting automatic membership. The treaties are relatively clear that Scotland would need to apply for membership, and those countries (at minimum - Belgium would have to think hard) would insist on Scotland playing by those rules. They don't want to encourage independence movements in Catalonia or the Basque country (or Flanders).

i agree, it's not without difficulty, but IMO the end result will be Scotland remaining. The objective of the EU is to grow, not shrink. All rules can be negotiated.

also : the EU may consider Scotland outside the EU might be even more of an encouragement to the other regions : the prospect of real indepence, quite a prize.

Scotland in the EU sends the message that indepedence isn't really that important anyway, it makes it like the proposed separation of California to form two States: an administrative change rahter than a substantive one.
 

FlipFlop


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I'm looking in from the outside, and it all seems a bit strange:

Scotland wants independence, but wants to keep the pound. Which would mean a currency union, with Westminster overseeing the Scottish budget. (where they will have zero MPs, so no say)
Or they join the EU, and have to take the Euro, with Germany overseeing their budget.

It's all a bit strange, and seems to be based on emotions (we hate the Conservatives), rather then facts and long term planning and benefits.
 

RobLev

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i agree, it's not without difficulty, but IMO the end result will be Scotland remaining. The objective of the EU is to grow, not shrink. All rules can be negotiated.

also : the EU may consider Scotland outside the EU might be even more of an encouragement to the other regions : the prospect of real indepence, quite a prize.

Scotland in the EU sends the message that indepedence isn't really that important anyway, it makes it like the proposed separation of California to form two States: an administrative change rahter than a substantive one.

Two differences between the UK and the rest of Europe are the approach to the benefits of the EU, and the ability to see that EU membership increases the ability of a state to exercise sovereignty.
 

colesy


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But in all honesty. Scottish players playing in England, Wales and Northern Ireland would have to get non EU residency visa's.

On what basis? A British passport remains a British passport. I can't see very many rushing to hand it in for a Scottish one if what you suggest is correct. In any event, the UK recognises dual nationality and has no problems with it and regardless of what Teresa May says, it's ludicrous to suggest that rUK would not permit Scottish dual nationals when the UK allows dual nationality with every other country in the world.
 

crossref


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Two differences between the UK and the rest of Europe are the approach to the benefits of the EU, and the ability to see that EU membership increases the ability of a state to exercise sovereignty.

and don't you think the attitude of Scotland would be more like the rest of Europe than like the UK ?

i just can't see the EU being so clumsy as to eject Scotland while keeping the rUK.
Of course there will be a negotiation, but Scotland would stay in, if it wanted to.
 

Daftmedic


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Not every other country. What's to stop the UK gov from cutting off Scotland and let them having pure independence. Therefor withdrawing UK citizenship?
If it happens I would like it to go as well as the Czechoslovakia divorce.

we do have the Isle of Man which is crown dependent but self governing and not part of the commonwealth. Urgh...... This is giving me a nose bleed
 
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crossref


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Not every other country. What's to stop the UK gov from cutting off Scotland and let them having pure independence. Therefor withdrawing UK citizenship?
If it happens I would like it to go as well as the Czechoslovakia divorce.


Well, we do have a precedent: when Ireland became independent all the Irish remained British Subjects (if they wanted to)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/British...lic_of_Ireland
 

colesy


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Not every other country. What's to stop the UK gov from cutting off Scotland and let them having pure independence. Therefor withdrawing UK citizenship?

What will stop them is the fact that the gratuitous stripping of citizenship is abhorrent to international law.

But of course it's much more complicated than that. How do you define British or Scottish or English in any event? Is someone born in Scotland Scottish if they have English parents and their birthplace was just where mum and dad happened to be at the time? Is someone born in England to Scottish parents Scottish or English? At the moment, calling oneself Scottish or English is just that, a self-definition - how one feels about oneself. British is different and you carry a passport to prove it.
 

Daftmedic


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Well, we do have a precedent: when Ireland became independent all the Irish remained British Subjects (if they wanted to)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/British...lic_of_Ireland

What about the offspring of them nationals. Are they entitled to a UK passport or would the have to loose it by birth and become Scottish nationals without the right to be a part of the UK.
one last point before I give myself an aneurism, didn't Scotland form the union to start with?
 

colesy


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one last point before I give myself an aneurism

You think this is complicated? I've been doing some family tree research. My father's side is completely Scottish as far as I can tell. On my mother's side, her father was a Jones (Welsh name) but his family was originally from Northern Ireland. My mother's mother's parents married in Glasgow but he was from Northampton and she was from Sligo. My wife was born in Rhodesia to a Scottish father and a Rhodesian mother who herself happened to be born in South Africa to a Scottish father and a Scottish/Dutch mother.

We're all one big happy British family. Well, mostly - some of us are in Canada, Australia and New Zealand.

Happy aneurism.
 
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