Scottish Rugby Union

[RobLev]

it's only really independence if they leave the EU.

...which was the point I addressed above. Membership of the EU increases the ability of a nation - particularly a small one - to exercise its sovereignty and hence its independence. Not only is no man an island, nor is any nation. The mainland Europeans get this, in the main; "fog in the Channel, continent cut off" Brits don't.

 

[crossref]

I think you are misusuing the word sovereignty
Being a member of the EU may well be a good thing, but there's no way it can be said to increase a county's sovereignty.

 

[Simon Thomas]

... but they would also have lost a lot of Labour MPs.

41 Scottish MPs I believe and the latest MORI poll indicates that would leave Miliband 5 or 6 short of a majority in May 2015

 

[Pegleg]

it's only really independence if they leave the EU.

?????

 

[irishref]

I didn't realise Georgia, Romania, Russia, Azerbaijan, Armenia, Norway, Iceland, Switzerland, Serbia, Bosnia, Turkey, Ukraine, Moldova and more still were in Europe as well...

 

[Browner]

Zzzzzz ..... Given this is in a rugby union thread, anyone got any rugby related comment ?

 

[irishref]

Funnily enough, due to the legal situation in the UK, EU law has already been written into Scots law, which remains a disctinct legal system to that of England+Wales and Northern Ireland...

 

[Daftmedic]

It started on topic. Just

 

[Lee Lifeson-Peart]

View attachment 3006

Jings Crivens Help M'Boab

 

[OB..]

Is that a conspiracy theory?

No - just an observation that there is only one Tory MP from Scotland. The Westminster Parliament would lose many Labour MPs.

 

[Daftmedic]

Is that a conspiracy theory?

No - just an observation that there is only one Tory MP from Scotland. The Westminster Parliament would lose many Labour MPs.

 

[Na Madrai]

Bringing this a little bit back on topic; I yesterday officiated at the National Police Sevens' Tournament, in which the Scottish Police had entered two teams. I asked several of their players if, if Scotland chooses to leave the UK, would they be back next year?

Everyone I asked replied in the negative - pity, too, as their teams ended up playing each other in the semi-final of the main competition and both played excellent, exciting rugby football throughout.

NM

 

[crossref]

Bringing this a little bit back on topic; I yesterday officiated at the National Police Sevens' Tournament, in which the Scottish Police had entered two teams. I asked several of their players if, if Scotland chooses to leave the UK, would they be back next year?

Everyone I asked replied in the negative - pity, too, as their teams ended up playing each other in the semi-final of the main competition and both played excellent, exciting rugby football throughout.

NM

seems rather a narrow minded vision: after independence Ireland didn't leave the 4 nations.

 

[Daftmedic]

Who's going to pay for the pensions?
now I've thrown a car amongst the pigeons.

 

[Lee Lifeson-Peart]

Who's going to pay for the pensions?
now I've thrown a car amongst the pigeons.

Have that you dirty, flea ridden, feathery b@stards!

View attachment 3009

 

[Daftmedic]

Have that you dirty, flea ridden, feathery b@stards!

View attachment 3009

indeed. Lolololol

 

[RobLev]

I think you are misusuing the word sovereignty
Being a member of the EU may well be a good thing, but there's no way it can be said to increase a county's sovereignty.

We're OT, so this is my last comment.

Nations aren't the only powers in the world. If I'm sitting across the bargaining table from the VP of a multinational that can buy my country lock stock and barrel, all the flag-waving "independence" in the world won't allow me to exercise my country's sovereignty; but membership of the largest trading bloc in the world gives me a chance.

To take another example; back in 1992 it was HM Government's policy that sterling enter and remain in the ERM. George Soros wanted to make money out of forcing it out. Who exercised sovereignty?

That's why independence within the EU is far more attractive for small emergent nations than independence outside the EU.

 

[OB..]

independence within the EU

A contradiction in terms. By joining the EU you accept some limitations on your indepenmdence. Your choice as to whether the balance is right for you.

 

[crossref]

RobLev you are just misuing the language.

I understand your argument that a small country might be able to exercise more influence on the world from inside the EU (because it has a fighting chance of first influencing the EU and, by that route, the world)

But the price of that increased influence (if you believe it) is a loss of sovereignty, as being a member of the EU means you are bound by EU rules. Rule you didn't necessarily welcome or agree with.

 

[RobLev]

A contradiction in terms. By joining the EU you accept some limitations on your indepenmdence. Your choice as to whether the balance is right for you.

No country is independent in the sense that there are no limitations on their freedom of policy choice. Every country has limitations on its independence; so unless you take the view that therefore no country is independent, it is entirely possible to be independent within the EU. Pooled sovereignty is none the less sovereignty.