Scrum - bind, unbind(?), rebind(?)

[Nigib]

Many of the original ELVs were FK only - as i said in my first post I will have to look it up.

I woukd use FK delay to form scrum as the initial offence perhaps, not a PK for not bound. Down to your management style and what works for you.

In the real world slingshotting is stopped after the Ask or Tell state so not penalisedanyway. I cannot recall seeing it penalised or penalised it myself ever. Any referee with half decent management will gave a quick word, and get 8s bound, or possibly reset the first incident and after that happy days.

I simply embarrass them by waiting (before starting the CBS sequence, so no safety implications), and telling the 9s v loudly that we're waiting for their 8. Have had quite a pause on occasion - the first time. I agree it's not 'worth' a PK; more important IMO to keep everyone bound until pickup/ball out.

 

[matty1194]

I simply embarrass them by waiting (before starting the CBS sequence, so no safety implications) and telling the 9s v loudly that we're waiting for their 8. Have had quite a pause on occasion.

Why would you do this?!?!

Potentially you now have a NO 8 ready to explode at you at every situation if you have tried to make him look silly or stupid in front of his mates and if this is at circa 1min into the game you then have 79min more of him simmering, for me this is a recipie for disaster.

Much easier to just tell him "shoulder on" as you state you normally embarress him before CBS you could just offer advice without being condasending.

 

[Dave Sherwin]

"Head in, please 8" seems to do the trick for me. Only ever got to a FK on about 2 occasions where I've got fed up of saying this at every scrum, have warned the chap in a friendly way, then in a more irritable way. I've seen a PK for slingshotting given once in an international and was disappointed as there had been no previous attempt to manage.

 

[matty1194]

"Head in, please 8" seems to do the trick for me.

Dave, what if the player comes back with, "But Sir, as per Law 20.3(f) I only require to have a bind with minimum of hand to shoulder in contact with my lock's body, there is no requirement to have my head in?" What would you say??

20.3 Binding in the scrum

(f) Binding by all other players. All players in a scrum, other than front-row players, must bind on a lock’s body with at least one arm prior to the scrum engagement. The locks must bind with the props in front of them. No other player other than a prop may hold an opponent.

Sanction: Penalty kick

Definitions
When a player binds on a team-mate that player must use the whole arm from hand to shoulder to grasp the team-mate’s body at or below the level of the armpit. Placing only a hand on another player is not satisfactory binding.

 

[Dave Sherwin]

Dave, what if the player comes back with, "But Sir, as per Law 20.3(f) I only require to have a bind with minimum of hand to shoulder in contact with my lock's body, there is no requirement to have my head in?" What would you say??

"Thank you very much for the tutorial, but let's at least start with your head in, shall we - keeps everybody happy" would probably be my response, but it is a fair point. Never been challenged on it before, but I might, in the future, change to "Bind in, please 8" on account of this!

 

[matty1194]

"Thank you very much for the tutorial, but let's at least start with your head in, shall we - keeps everybody happy" would probably be my response, but it is a fair point. Never been challenged on it before, but I might, in the future, change to "Bind in, please 8" on account of this!

Its one of those classic urban myths! I bet all referees have said it at least once in there career! I know I have, now I just say, "8's, shoulder on" I honestly dont care if he has his head in or not and have been picked up for it before by assessors who then when you mention he doesnt have too mumble and move on to next part of debrief.

 

[ChrisR]

"And while you're at it, #8, bind on the body of the locks, please, as per 20.3"

"Sir, that's nigh on impossible!"

"Yes, it is, but do your best"

 

[Phil E]

Its one of those classic urban myths! I bet all referees have said it at least once in there career! I know I have, now I just say, "8's, shoulder on" I honestly dont care if he has his head in or not and have been picked up for it before by assessors who then when you mention he doesnt have too mumble and move on to next part of debrief.

If your going to start getting pedantic with the 8, shoulder on doesn't conform either?
I can put my shoulder on the lock without a bind.

 

[Nigib]

Why would you do this?!?!

Potentially you now have a NO 8 ready to explode at you at every situation if you have tried to make him look silly or stupid in front of his mates and if this is at circa 1min into the game you then have 79min more of him simmering, for me this is a recipie for disaster.

Much easier to just tell him "shoulder on" as you state you normally embarress him before CBS you could just offer advice without being condasending.

I can see this might happen depending on the exact words/tone etc used, but at my level they know it's not legal, and I've never seen any evidence of this sort of reaction, so I get compliance without having to penalise. 'Shoulder on'? Not a term I've ever used, and I can't see the relevance in law - they have to bind fully with at least one arm. If they want to have their head up and wave the other arm around, fine by me.