Scrum half feed

[scrumpox2]

Red and Yellow U13s game
Scrum halves from both sides guilty of feeding at scrum time, red is penalised 3 times (free kick) and yellow not penalised. As coach of red I am standing next to coach of yellow throughout and we are increasingly perplexed about why the calls are one-sided ... is it the ref's positioning? ... being tall can he not see the ball at all once thrown into the scrum?
Had a word with the ref afterwards and he told me he was looking at the scrum half's feet ... red scrum half adjusted his feet when the front row moved and he pinged him for that. Yellow scrum half stayed square to the tunnel.
So the actual direction of the ball when thrown in had no bearing, merely the way the scrum half was standing. Ref said he was following a society directive.
What's the directive here?

... and why don't tall refs crouch down to watch for feeding when it's an issue that players are bringing to his attention?

 

[Cymro]

that would be from the "society of ridiculous advice" what is wrong with getting down on one knee occasionally!!!:wow:

 

[Dixie]

and why don't tall refs crouch down to watch for feeding when it's an issue that players are bringing to his attention?

I can't comment on the general query, other than to say I've never heard of a directive to determine feeding by reference to a #9's feet. However, the point above came up at my last training session.

At a scrum, feeding is one of the least imortant infringements that may be going on. The referee who has his head below the level of the players' backs so he can see the feed (and foot up) is missing all the important safety-realted stuff that goes on. Boring in by the tighthead? Look from on high. Far siode binding? Look from on high. #8 slingshot? Look from on high.

The feed is the only bit of all this the touchline (and the gobby SH) is interested in. The referee does their bidding at his peril - though he should obviously make sure from time to time that he's in a position to see the feed, even if all sorts of other shenanigans are going on.

 

[Staybound]

I have to crouch for junior games. There are other diagnostic tools too - particularly rubbish packs winning a disproportionate amount of ball. It's sometimes easier to see from "the other side" I find too.

 

[Phil E]

It's sometimes easier to see from "the other side" I find too.

Would that be "The Dark Side"?

I'm with Dixie, safety issues first. Feeding is the least of my concerns....and if they are both doing it (as they will be, the cheating little B*&%£$&*S), then its equitable :biggrin:

 

[scrumpox2]

Would that be "The Dark Side"?

I'm with Dixie, safety issues first. Feeding is the least of my concerns....and if they are both doing it (as they will be, the cheating little B*&%£$&*S), then its equitable :biggrin:

OK, but the lack of equity is precisely my point ...

... he also warned the hookers in his pre-match briefing to front row players that he would ping foot up, yet he never once took up a position where he could see it.

 

[Bungle]

On the odd times I overhear other refs doing their briefings I do inwardly sigh when they reel off a list of things they 'will ping'. Chances are they won't - as in your case - and the ref looks weak. Or alternatively he will and may well ruin the scrum as both sides daren't do anything for fear of a trigger-happy ref.

Much better if they say 'I will be looking closely at x'. But also agree - if you say this then don't even look, even less credibility!

 

[Deeps]

Ref said he was following a society directive.
What's the directive here?

No such directive in Hampshire, however, the referee is sole judge of fact and law and will have been directed to be consistent and treat both teams with equanimity (sounds like a new pesticide!).

Of course the teams that prevail learn to adjust quickly to the referee's requirements rather than endeavouring to enforce their perceived knowledge of Law over his.

 

[Simon Thomas]

Scrumpox - was this the U13 Plate Final ? eas it an appointed Society Referee or Club Exchange Ref ?

SH feet positions are one clue (only one) and they (and shoulders) should be square to tunnel - as an ex-cheating SH I know about these matters ! :wink:

Referee positioning at scrum has become difficult with intro of 5m ELV and we have seen some quite bizzare experiments this season. Where was your referee standing ?

 

[andyscott]

Bloody srcum halves and feeding, I hate it, but I hate it more when a player even the captain asks "Sir will you watch the feeding", it really grips my shit, I usually reply with "Will you shut up? or you will go in the bin"

 

[ddjamo]

Bloody srcum halves and feeding, I hate it, but I hate it more when a player even the captain asks "Sir will you watch the feeding", it really grips my shit, I usually reply with "Will you shut up? or you will go in the bin"

I am glad I am not the only one that has a major issue with that comment. makes me livid. the dumb-ass captain should tell his 9 that I am "allowing a little leeway" and to be sure to use it...rather than ask me to watch something that I can plainly see - right in front of my f'ing face.

 

[Lee Lifeson-Peart]

"Sir will you watch the feeding",

"Yours or theirs?" usually works. :hap:

But then if it continues my shit is gripped :wow: whatever that means. It must be something they do near Durham

 

[OB..]

Seems appropriate to repeat this here:-

I have just been to a very entertaining evening at Kingsholm where 6 Gloucester legends were being interviewed and answered questions from the audience.

Given there were 3 props, I asked if they were bothered about crooked feeds, or if there were more important aspects of scrummaging. Andy Deacon and Phil Vickery both said that as long as it wasn't too ridiculous, they did not mind. Allan Townsend (played in the 1960s) thought it was always put in pretty straight in his day.

It looks as though top referees and players are on the same page.

 

[nealed]

I have to crouch for junior games. There are other diagnostic tools too - particularly rubbish packs winning a disproportionate amount of ball. It's sometimes easier to see from "the other side" I find too.

i was reliably informed by a panel ref that u cant see feeding from the far side
i thought i could too

 

[Lee Lifeson-Peart]

i was reliably informed by a panel ref that u cant see feeding from the far side
i thought i could too

Neal, we were reliably informed by a panel ref that HE doesn't even bother looking for not straight. Oh for Brian Moore to be at that Society meeting. :biggrin: :biggrin:

 

[ddjamo]

don't know about you guys...but with the 5m at scrums and if I don't have AR's...I am on the short side often once I am comfortable with the scrums. I feel I can see the put and the binding just fine - plus have a peripheral of the offside lines.

 

[sgoat]

It must be something they do near Durham

No they just keep quiet and take advantage!

 

[stuart3826]

I have a simplistic view. At front row briefing I explain that feeding is the least of my worries at scrum time, as I'm more concerned about safety aspects such as binding. If, however, I see it, I will ping it without warning.

If they subsequently bring it to my attention having been warned, I take Lee's attitude, "Theirs or yours", and ping the next two I see.

Not usually a big problem in my world.

 

[PaulDG]

don't know about you guys...but with the 5m at scrums and if I don't have AR's...I am on the short side often once I am comfortable with the scrums. I feel I can see the put and the binding just fine - plus have a peripheral of the offside lines.

Can you see the tight head interfering with the SH?

 

[Simon Thomas]

Can you see the tight head interfering with the SH?

in what way Paul ? I would never have got close enough (or stupid enough) to the props at throw-in for that to happen !

as with many other phases of play, the key is to establish your refereeing requirements and standards early (or in pre-brief) for each key element and then have zero tolerance