scrum trials...positioning...

[ddjamo]

do you guys think you will change anything at the put in? I'm thinking a step back further may be in order. I am beginning to realize that we will be hearing many more scrum feed heckling than ever before so we have to get it right.

any other thoughts?

 

[Buck1969]

Did the L2 course a few weeks ago, and we spent a bunch of time on it, both in the classroom and practical. At the beginning, at least, we are probably going to have to stand in front of the scrumhalves to manage the put-in - i.e., make sure the scrum is dead still before the ball goes in. Once teams start getting the hang of it as the game goes on, taking a step back could be useful.

 

[ddjamo]

the only problem with that is that you are out of position to see anything...I haven't worked on it yet but I am thinking by the time it goes in you need to be back a bit to see everything....so standing there and as you move the sh puts it in is not a great option. then we get into making them wait until we are back far enough...and that's not good.

I am thinking setting the standard tough and putting ownership on them to do it right makes more sense then us micro managing it.

 

[Buck1969]

That was one of the themes of the course - the more responsibility you can put on the captain and the players, the better!

 

[RussRef]

When you say a step back, are you talking about away from the scrum? In the past I've stood level with the put-in, with the 9s between me and the scrum itself. That has allowed me to see the feed and strike, but admittedly it made it a bit harder to ensure the scrum was stationary before the put-in. Until the new engagement sequence becomes second nature, I'm thinking about altering that and standing between the 9s and the scrum until it's stationary after "set," then stepping back toward the rear foot of the put-in side. I think this'll let me keep the scrum stationary and then still see the feed and strike.

I do not like the "put it in" tactic that the UK guys are using. Seems to insert me unnecessarily into the interchange between 9 and 1-3.

This is all made more difficult by the DII college matrix matches scheduled for the fall. Shame we don't have a season's worth of friendlies to sort this out.

 

[ddjamo]

All

Here is a press release I wrote & attached is a PDF from the iRB:

The New Scrum Trial process has proven to have some teething problems. USA Rugby High Performance Referee Manager, Richard Every, who was the manager for the iRB Women’s Nations Cup recently held from July 30th – August 10th, has the following to share with referees.

"CROUCH"

Ensure both teams are level. If not bring up the lower team that is normally the defensive team as it is more difficult to hook the lower the scrum is. MANAGE / Free Kick
The Loosehead has to be facing forward and square (not with feet and body at a 45º angle. Mostly this is the defensive Loosehead. MANAGE
Loosehead right shoulder must be "out"/”square”, not tucked under the hooker. MANAGE


"BIND"

Loosehead must not bind low on the Tighthead's body and pull them out. Penalty Kick
Tightheads will bind short (by the Loosehead’s armpit) to protect themselves.


"SET"

Have to have patience and ensure the scrum is square and steady before you say "Yes 9" - your instinct will be to "get on with it", but say "hold", or "square" or "steady" to get compliance.
Often the defensive scrum will work a 15º left shoulder, straighten it up. Free Kick
The Scrumhalf has to be in the middle, where the 2 front rows meet, not on their team's side of the scrum. MANAGE PRE-PUT IN / Free Kick
Defensive Scrumhalf sometimes leans on the putting in Scrumhalf - keep them apart. MANAGE PRE PUT IN/ Free Kick


"YES 9"

It appears that the Loosehead has all the power and it's easier for the scrum to wheel/turn clockwise, and very easy to walk the scrum around/illegally wheel the scrum. Penalty Kick
Allow the Scrumhalf a moment to put in the ball (1-2s, not 5s). If you expect the Scrumhalf to put it in immediately when you say "Yes 9", the defensive scrum will read this and push immediately on "Yes 9". Free Kick
If you see the defensive scrum move forward at a 45º angle you should notice the defensive Loosehead boring in and possibly the attacking Tighthead’s back bulging or they will pop out of the scrum. Penalty Kick
The TH can still bring their arm in to twist the Loosehead and take the scrum down. Penalty Kick


Note : As the defensive Loosehead seems to be the biggest issue I would suggest standing on the non putting in side, but give yourself room to monitor the feed.

The key is to have patience and make sure that all comply in each process, especially being square and steady before allowing the put in.

 

[smeagol]

All

Here is a press release I wrote & attached is a PDF from the iRB:

The New Scrum Trial process has proven to have some teething problems. USA Rugby High Performance Referee Manager, Richard Every, who was the manager for the iRB Women’s Nations Cup recently held from July 30th – August 10th, has the following to share with referees.

"CROUCH"

Ensure both teams are level. If not bring up the lower team that is normally the defensive team as it is more difficult to hook the lower the scrum is. MANAGE / Free Kick
The Loosehead has to be facing forward and square (not with feet and body at a 45º angle. Mostly this is the defensive Loosehead. MANAGE
Loosehead right shoulder must be "out"/”square”, not tucked under the hooker. MANAGE


"BIND"

Loosehead must not bind low on the Tighthead's body and pull them out. Penalty Kick
Tightheads will bind short (by the Loosehead’s armpit) to protect themselves.


"SET"

Have to have patience and ensure the scrum is square and steady before you say "Yes 9" - your instinct will be to "get on with it", but say "hold", or "square" or "steady" to get compliance.
Often the defensive scrum will work a 15º left shoulder, straighten it up. Free Kick
The Scrumhalf has to be in the middle, where the 2 front rows meet, not on their team's side of the scrum. MANAGE PRE-PUT IN / Free Kick
Defensive Scrumhalf sometimes leans on the putting in Scrumhalf - keep them apart. MANAGE PRE PUT IN/ Free Kick


"YES 9"

It appears that the Loosehead has all the power and it's easier for the scrum to wheel/turn clockwise, and very easy to walk the scrum around/illegally wheel the scrum. Penalty Kick
Allow the Scrumhalf a moment to put in the ball (1-2s, not 5s). If you expect the Scrumhalf to put it in immediately when you say "Yes 9", the defensive scrum will read this and push immediately on "Yes 9". Free Kick
If you see the defensive scrum move forward at a 45º angle you should notice the defensive Loosehead boring in and possibly the attacking Tighthead’s back bulging or they will pop out of the scrum. Penalty Kick
The TH can still bring their arm in to twist the Loosehead and take the scrum down. Penalty Kick


Note : As the defensive Loosehead seems to be the biggest issue I would suggest standing on the non putting in side, but give yourself room to monitor the feed.

The key is to have patience and make sure that all comply in each process, especially being square and steady before allowing the put in.

Eric posted this on the CARFU page. As I could not make it to my society's meeting this time, I plan on trying to think through these when the local club finally gets around to practicing the new engagement.