Sharks vs. Irish - calling lineout numbers

SimonSmith


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Interesting one today... U16 game, maroon had the throw but slow to get sorted, green asked for confirmation on numbers because it wasn't clear, then green coach shouted, "don't worry about numbers, they haven't declared how many, so we're allowed to have any number" :oops:
In my game, Red went with 5.
Green only put 4 in - they were playing a man down.

Throw comes in.
Anyone like to guess what Red yelled at me?
 

didds

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Where do these people get this rubbish from?

And it's both sides of the whistle too.

" must shown control when scoring by falling on the ball in goal"

"Must throw the ball 5m even if the opoosition catch it before it does"

Being two bizarre calls ive witnessed
 

Mipper


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In such a case, where the team is being wankers with number calling, like your case, or making any call I think is made with intent to mislead the opposition regards the number of players, I would just play on even if the opponents have one extra in the lineout. If they complain, my answer would be "you said six - if you choose to have only five that's on you".

As Sir Humphrey Appleby used to say to Sir Frank Gordon ... "That's YP!"
Yup, agreed, done this more than once 👍
 

tim White


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Attempting to make the ref believe an offence has occurred is a Penalty offence (Law 9.7.c) and you may wish to use this if they continue to mess about. It soon stops it.
 

Dickie E


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Attempting to make the ref believe an offence has occurred is a Penalty offence (Law 9.7.c) and you may wish to use this if they continue to mess about. It soon stops it.
I've always considered 9.7.c to be about convincing the ref that an offence has occurred when in fact it hasn't (eg pretending you've been punched). In this situation an offence has in fact occurred.
 

tim White


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I was referring to the deliberately incorrect 'numbers' call and thus hoping to get a free kick. Please note I stated you MAY wish to use this -I would warn first.
 

Mipper


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Attempting to make the ref believe an offence has occurred is a Penalty offence (Law 9.7.c) and you may wish to use this if they continue to mess about. It soon stops it.
Yes that is very true but I would rather avoid awarding a penalty, make it clear that we’re not messing around with numbers, and just get on with the game.
 

Stu10


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I was referring to the deliberately incorrect 'numbers' call and thus hoping to get a free kick. Please note I stated you MAY wish to use this -I would warn first.
Not sure I want to get into this, but, deliberately calling incorrect numbers is to convince/mislead the opposition, not the referee, and if the defending team put in too many players then an offence has in fact occurred, as pointed out by @Dickie E ... HOWEVER, I agree with others that I would not award a free kick in this situation and would have word about dick tactics. If you want to point to a law, I would refer to 9.27:

Law 9.27
A player must not do anything that is against the spirit of good sportsmanship.
 

Mipper


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Not the same thing but similar; reffing an U16 game, decent standard, one score in it, very close to he end of the game. Very tense.

Trailing team kicks penalty to around the attacking 22m line.

Defenders ask for numbers.

”All in”

quick discussion, then; “change that, 5 man”

Context; the line had not formed, I think there was an injury somewhere, ball was likely stuck in the trees.

Defending coach screaming “they CANNOT change ref”. Really screaming.

As there was a stoppage I was able to speak to him, and try to calm him, and correct him. Didn’t work but managed it in the bar later.

Attacking team ran a clever long ball, forward carry into midfield type move, and nearly scored, but didn’t. Game over.
 

crossref


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Not the same thing but similar; reffing an U16 game, decent standard, one score in it, very close to he end of the game. Very tense.

Trailing team kicks penalty to around the attacking 22m line.

Defenders ask for numbers.

”All in”

quick discussion, then; “change that, 5 man”

Context; the line had not formed, I think there was an injury somewhere, ball was likely stuck in the trees.

Defending coach screaming “they CANNOT change ref”. Really screaming.

As there was a stoppage I was able to speak to him, and try to calm him, and correct him. Didn’t work but managed it in the bar later.

Attacking team ran a clever long ball, forward carry into midfield type move, and nearly scored, but didn’t. Game over.
bl**dy coaches! That's always the drawback of youth games
 

SimonSmith


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Not sure I want to get into this, but, deliberately calling incorrect numbers is to convince/mislead the opposition, not the referee, and if the defending team put in too many players then an offence has in fact occurred, as pointed out by @Dickie E ... HOWEVER, I agree with others that I would not award a free kick in this situation and would have word about dick tactics. If you want to point to a law, I would refer to 9.27:

Law 9.27
A player must not do anything that is against the spirit of good sportsmanship.
Oh no. He was looking straight at me as he said it.
 

Ciaran Trainor


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Not the same thing but similar; reffing an U16 game, decent standard, one score in it, very close to he end of the game. Very tense.

Trailing team kicks penalty to around the attacking 22m line.

Defenders ask for numbers.

”All in”

quick discussion, then; “change that, 5 man”

Context; the line had not formed, I think there was an injury somewhere, ball was likely stuck in the trees.

Defending coach screaming “they CANNOT change ref”. Really screaming.

As there was a stoppage I was able to speak to him, and try to calm him, and correct him. Didn’t work
but managed it in the bar later.
Attacking team ran a clever long ball, forward carry into midfield type move, and nearly scored, but didn’t. Game over.
I would have asked him to leave the playing area at least. a lesson for his team and him about respect
 

crossref


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England v South Africa
Angus Gardner asking South Africa how many they are putting into the lineout
 

Lee Lifeson-Peart


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Not the same thing but similar; reffing an U16 game, decent standard, one score in it, very close to he end of the game. Very tense.

Trailing team kicks penalty to around the attacking 22m line.

Defenders ask for numbers.

”All in”

quick discussion, then; “change that, 5 man”

Context; the line had not formed, I think there was an injury somewhere, ball was likely stuck in the trees.

Defending coach screaming “they CANNOT change ref”. Really screaming.

As there was a stoppage I was able to speak to him, and try to calm him, and correct him. Didn’t work but managed it in the bar later.

Attacking team ran a clever long ball, forward carry into midfield type move, and nearly scored, but didn’t. Game over.
What a cock!

Another junior coach vicariously reliving his Rugby career and/or thinks he's coaching a team in the semi final of the World Cup.
 

Marc Wakeham


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No requirement to give verbal call. The non thowing side (NTS) can count just as easily as the ref. If the NTS has too many we have two scenarios. IF there is time to adjust, they must as per 18.14. However if there is no time they don't, as per 18.14.​
Don't create work for yourself.​
 
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