slappung the ball out of the scrum half hands

breako


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England number 9 is onside and slaps the ball out irish number 9s hands. Hes pinged. Is this ever legal and what law covers it? Thanks
 

Martin Doughty

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I *thought* it went forward (but I have not seen a good replay), in which case it is a deliberate knock forward = PK.
 

DocY


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Yes, it was a deliberate knock forward. If it had gone backwards, it would have been okay.
 

Dave Elliott

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I was under the impression you cannot knock or play the scrum half as he is about to play the ball from the ruck, is this not correct?
 

Phil E


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I was under the impression you cannot knock or play the scrum half as he is about to play the ball from the ruck, is this not correct?

Once the SH has lifted the ball off the floor the ruck is over. He can then be challenged providing the player doing comes from a legal position.
 

Dixie


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Once the SH has lifted the ball off the floor the ruck is over. He can then be challenged providing the player doing comes from a legal position.

And there is some inconsistency in the logic applied to the question of a legal position. For me, once the ball is off the floor and the ruck is over, the only people who are prevented from taking an active part in the game are those who were offside at the ruck but whom the ref chose not to punish in the absence of affecting the game. However, there are many instances in TV games where legal ex-ruckers are pinged for some mythical offence of not coming through the middle to impinge on the #9. I don't think we should copy them except where we are clear that the offence preceded the lifting of the ball.
 

Taff


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England number 9 is onside and slaps the ball out irish number 9s hands. Hes pinged. Is this ever legal and what law covers it? Thanks
Slapping the ball straight down or back is OK. Deliberately slapping the ball forward is not.

12.1 The outcome of a knock-on or throw forward
(f) Intentional knock or throw forward. A player must not intentionally knock the ball forward with hand or arm, nor throw forward.
Sanction: Penalty kick.

Of course slapping the ball straight down runs the risk of the Ref thinking it was forward and slapping it backwards is very difficult unless you're very close to the BC, and if you're that close you may as well tackle him anyway. :biggrin:

Yes, it was a deliberate knock forward. If it had gone backwards, it would have been okay.
+1.
 
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ChuckieB

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And there is some inconsistency in the logic applied to the question of a legal position. For me, once the ball is off the floor and the ruck is over, the only people who are prevented from taking an active part in the game are those who were offside at the ruck but whom the ref chose not to punish in the absence of affecting the game. However, there are many instances in TV games where legal ex-ruckers are pinged for some mythical offence of not coming through the middle to impinge on the #9. I don't think we should copy them except where we are clear that the offence preceded the lifting of the ball.

11.8! I am an expert now, don't you know!

"When a ruck, maul, scrum or lineout forms, a player who is offside and is retiring as required by Law remains offside even when the opposing team wins possession and the ruck, maul, scrum or lineout has ended........."

a player can seek to disrupt the scrum half in any legal attempt to come though the middle as sh is playing the ball but we know from elsewhere he is not part of the ruck and cannot be tackled directly, in the first instance.
 
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