Suitably Trained and Experienced

[Marc Wakeham]

How does a player become "Suitably Trained and Experienced" to scrummage unless he has taken part in a real scrum at least once?

 

[L'irlandais]

Here in FFR (France’s Rugby Union) land, there is an obligatory training scheme.
Evaluing Front Row player’s skills, which include a scrum machine which regularly tours the country to visit all clubs and promote the idea of scrum safety. Suitably meaning as well trained and with as much experience as possible, before that all important match day baptism of fire.

This (procédure) is for the grassroots game. I know underage and mini/midi/maxi have their own programmes, so presumably Professional Rugby(Levels 1, 2 & 3) have strict training and assessment programmes too. See International training camp example

 

[beckett50]

How does a player become "Suitably Trained and Experienced" to scrummage unless he has taken part in a real scrum at least once?

As a referee I rely on the word of the Coach (at Junior levels). If I suspect that he is unsafe then I will go uncontested scrums and have a word with the coach as to why.

 

[Marc Wakeham]

That is all we can do. But not the answer to my point.

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Here in FFR (France’s Rugby Union) land, there is an obligatory training scheme.
Evaluing Front Row player’s skills, which include a scrum machine which regularly tours the country to visit all clubs and promote the idea of scrum safety. Suitably meaning as well trained and with as much experience as possible, before that all important match day baptism of fire.

This (procédure) is for the grassroots game. I know underage and mini/midi/maxi have their own programmes, so presumably Professional Rugby(Levels 1, 2 & 3) have strict training and assessment programmes too. See International training camp example

Interesting. We have nothing like that.

 

[Decorily]

How does a player become "Suitably Trained and Experienced" to scrummage unless he has taken part in a real scrum at least once?

I see your point....chicken and egg scenario!

But we have to presume that the player has been suitably coached and has taken part in a 'real' scrum even if not in a game situation.

 

[crossref]

No matter what training you do, there is always a first game

 

[L'irlandais]

Yes but there’s a big difference between zero training and some checkable system of ensuring front rows are prepared for that first game. And not letting it down to some dishonest coach saying Johnnie is suitably trained only because he has nobody else on the day. Here the front row passport is literally that a piece of paper with the player’s name on it, certifying his ability. Not the sort of thing a coach could easily forge, or if they did, they’d be in trouble.

I think it all goes back to France hosting the 2007 RWC. Insurance companies here suddenly had a surge in membership from the FFR (French Union) and likely a surge in claims. At which point they threatened to list Rugby as a dangerous sport (akin to parachuting) unless the FFR eliminated some of the factors creating so much injury. The scrum was the top of their list, because of deaths. But they are still holding the French Union to ransom, evidence of this in the whole high tackle protocol currently being trialed.

 

[Arabcheif]

I had a player in a recent adult game. He was a replacement Prop, came on and was trying to bind the same place as his opposing THP so wasn't quite working. Stopped the clock, got the captain and the coach. Asked if he was indeed FR trained as he was trying to bind incorrectly. I was assured that he was.

Went back to the scrum set it up, sad to the guy he needed to bind under the THP. Binding was fine, scrums stable. Was happy to keep going. I thought after maybe he usually played THP.

 

[didds]

I had a player in a recent adult game. He was a replacement Prop, came on and was trying to bind the same place as his opposing THP so wasn't quite working. Stopped the clock, got the captain and the coach. Asked if he was indeed FR trained as he was trying to bind incorrectly. I was assured that he was.

Went back to the scrum set it up, sad to the guy he needed to bind under the THP. Binding was fine, scrums stable. Was happy to keep going. I thought after maybe he usually played THP.

Its also a technique to try and counter the inside bind of the TH and weaken his "leverage" or "pull down". This from 30 odd years ago when I played LH! But these days as you pointed out the laws define whose bind goes where, and the requirements for a long bind to some degree alleviate the pulling down strategies


didds