Tackle Height Discussion

[Stu10]

I played from 1980 though to 2010 (childhood to mid-30s), I didn't get remotely close to elite level, but throughout my career I've been important to the team as fly half and/or captain... I've been concussed multiple times through my career, but I don't recall ever being pressured to play on.

Multiple times I've chosen (insisted) to stay on, with hindsight I'm confident there are several occasions that a coach or teacher should have taken me off the pitch but didn't, and I remember a few times that other players have encouraged me to leave the pitch (which I only did when there was an additional injury, typically involving blood loss).

 

[SimonSmith]

I played from 1980 though to 2010 (childhood to mid-30s), I didn't get remotely close to elite level, but throughout my career I've been important to the team as fly half and/or captain... I've been concussed multiple times through my career, but I don't recall ever being pressured to play on.

Multiple times I've chosen (insisted) to stay on, with hindsight I'm confident there are several occasions that a coach or teacher should have taken me of the pitch but didn't, and I remember a few times that other players have encouraged me to leave the pitch (which I only did when there was an additional injury, typically involving blood loss).

This.

I took up refereeing in the early 90s because I had been concussed more than my doctor was happy with. If people played on, they need to take responsibility for that like grown ups

 

[Volun-selected]

I played from 1980 though to 2010 (childhood to mid-30s), I didn't get remotely close to elite level, but throughout my career I've been important to the team as fly half and/or captain... I've been concussed multiple times through my career, but I don't recall ever being pressured to play on.

Multiple times I've chosen (insisted) to stay on, with hindsight I'm confident there are several occasions that a coach or teacher should have taken me of the pitch but didn't, and I remember a few times that other players have encouraged me to leave the pitch (which I only did when there was an additional injury, typically involving blood loss).

For me, it was partly the culture - it was rugby, a man’s game, played by real men who ran around a cow field who took and gave plenty of cheap hits, and occasionally played some good running rugby. I got to watch the best of said manly men every Sunday on Rugby Special as the adults in the room smoked like chimneys as passive smoking wasn’t a thing then.
Or a few years later watching the Blackpool Tower Wade Dooley grinning like a loon after lamping some French player and it being lauded (even though he was a copper) by all in the room and them telling me “now that’s proper rugby!”
And have you rewatched some of the England vs. France matches form the early 90s?

Mainly though, it was that you didn’t want to let the team down - maybe the physicality fosters a stronger bond (or some variation of Stockholm Syndrome) but you always wanted to carry on and not leave your mates in the lurch.

With hindsight, which as always is 20:20, I grossly overestimated my ability and contribution to the team, especially after a big hit and was more of a liability by staying on. Even now, I think many players would try to push on, but at least coaches and refs are more switched on.

 

[Jz558]

I completed the RFU tackle height survey yesterday and it seems from the direction of questionning that they are working towards a sternum and below (midriff) type tackle height. The video preamble which accompanies the survey said that any changes will only impact tackles made in open play with lineout, maul, ruck and scrum all staying the same. The ball carrier will have a responsibility not to dip into a tackle and no change to pick and drive was thought necessary as any contact tends to be low impact. Sounds like, most decisions have been made with one or two areas requiring tweaking (ie how to manage ball carrier behaviour). Interesting exercise.

 

[Phil E]

I completed the RFU tackle height survey yesterday and it seems from the direction of questionning that they are working towards ........

Despite this being labelled as a consultation, its almost as if the questions are designed for us to agree with what they want to do. Apart from the free text box at the end there's very little wiggle room to vote for a different agenda to the one in the video.

Having said that I will go with whatever is agreed and manage it as instructed. I will leave the arguments to the clubs and players.

 

[didds]

Despite this being labelled as a consultation, its almost as if the questions are designed for us to agree with what they want to do.

In my experience that is what "consuiltations" usually do - they start with the premise that one direction/view WILL be happening ...
we had a "consultation" in very recent years about a rail station being opened "near" to our town. Nothing in the "consultation" questionaairre had the option to express a view that the idea should not go ahead and the money used in some other way to improve existing public transport links to existing nearby railheads. ie its entire premise was that the rail station WOULD be opened.

a year or so before that we also had one regarding parking in the town centre revolving around the premise that main central area should be scrapped completely. guess what ?


didds

 

[Volun-selected]

Despite this being labelled as a consultation, its almost as if the questions are designed for us to agree with what they want to do. Apart from the free text box at the end there's very little wiggle room to vote for a different agenda to the one in the video.

Ah, reminds me of the power of leading questions.

 

[crossref]

World Rugby encourage all unions to change tackle height to sternum

Lower tackle height at the heart of plans to enhance community rugby experience | World Rugby

World Rugby’s Executive Board has recommended that Unions participate in an opt-in global trial of lowering the tackle height in the community game to below the sternum.

www.world.rugby

I imagine it will come to the pro game as well after the RWC

I also expect to see a ban on hand-offs to the head

 

[Zebra1922]

World Rugby encourage all unions to change tackle height to sternum

Lower tackle height at the heart of plans to enhance community rugby experience | World Rugby

World Rugby’s Executive Board has recommended that Unions participate in an opt-in global trial of lowering the tackle height in the community game to below the sternum.

www.world.rugby

I imagine it will come to the pro game as well after the RWC

I also expect to see a ban on hand-offs to the head

Excellent. Something has to be done to reduce head contact to tackled players from high tackles. I'm all for lowering the tackle height. I'm glad to see this is now heading towards WR led approrach rather than relying on individual unions to deal with it.

 

[Dickie E]

I'm certainly no expert but every concussion I've seen have either been:
1. concussion to tackler due to poor technique or contact with ball carrier's knee/hip, or
2. hitting head on the ground

Anyway, who am I to argue with the data

 

[crossref]

I'm certainly no expert but every concussion I've seen have either been:
1. concussion to tackler due to poor technique or contact with ball carrier's knee/hip, or
2. hitting head on the ground

Anyway, who am I to argue with the data

one of those podcasts explains that quite well - it's to do with base rates.
- majority of tackles are in the safe zone
- the rate of injury is less in the safe zone
- the rate of injury is more in the danger zone
- but because the majority of tackles are in the safe zone, a high proportion of injuries are there.

that didn't explain it well - but an analogy

The majority of people who are seriously injured in car crashes are wearing a seatbelt.

That doesn't mean seatbelts are dangerous -- it's because 99% of people wear seatbelts.

The injury rate amongst the unbelted is much higher, but because there aren't very many of them, they only account for a minority of injuries

 

[Rich_NL]

Since the lockdown (maybe a bit over a season of actual rugby) I've also seen concussions from a high tackle, a head clash, a flying shoulder into a ruck and a forearm/elbow "fend". Any three of which might just have scraped a PK 15 years ago but seem (again, anecdotally) a lot less common these days, and the first two of which may be reduced by stricter tackle height laws.

 

[crossref]

Yes, we are MUCH more sensitive about concussions nowadays, so that in an average season you will see a lot of players taken off the pitch for suspected concussion who just a few years ago would have played on with no one thinking for a moment about the issue
(This is a good thing )

 

[Stu10]

one of those podcasts explains that quite well - it's to do with base rates.
- majority of tackles are in the safe zone
- the rate of injury is less in the safe zone
- the rate of injury is more in the danger zone
- but because the majority of tackles are in the safe zone, a high proportion of injuries are there.

that didn't explain it well - but an analogy

The majority of people who are seriously injured in car crashes are wearing a seatbelt.

That doesn't mean seatbelts are dangerous -- it's because 99% of people wear seatbelts.

The injury rate amongst the unbelted is much higher, but because there aren't very many of them, they only account for a minority of injuries

This is about separating the volume of safe vs danger zone tackles, and then examine the rate of injury within each of those two categories.

There is a significantly larger volume of tackles in the safe zone, and therefore a higher number of injuries, but the incidence rate of injuries (injuries per tackle) is lower compared to tackles in the danger zone. There are fewer tackles in the danger zone, but you are more likely to get injured.

 

[crossref]

Precisely

 

[Phil E]

All discussions of the new tackle height laws have been moved to:

RFU law variations approved to lower tackle height

RFU LAW VARIATIONS APPROVED TO LOWER TACKLE HEIGHT https://www.englandrugby.com/news/article/law-variations-approved-to-lower-tackle-height-in-community-rugby-union THE LAW CHANGES ARE AS FOLLOWS: Law 9 Foul Play 9.11.(a) Players must not do anything that is reckless or dangerous to others...

forum.rugbyrefs.com

I am closing this thread to avoid duplication of discussions.