Taking the 'hit'

wrighty


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what are the signs to watch out for if you suspect a front row is deliberately not taking the hit as opposed to simply not being strong enough either/or both,physically or technically?
 

Phil E


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what are the signs to watch out for if you suspect a front row is deliberately not taking the hit as opposed to simply not being strong enough either/or both,physically or technically?

He has to be in a position to push........nothing in the law book states he has to "take a hit".
 

OB..


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He has to be in a position to push........nothing in the law book states he has to "take a hit".
True, but we all know this refers to a team which yields easily to try to draw a Free Kick for an early push.

As you say, look to see if they are in a position to drive forward, and if they really do go forward on the Engage.
 

rugbydave


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what are the signs to watch out for if you suspect a front row is deliberately not taking the hit as opposed to simply not being strong enough either/or both,physically or technically?

I would say watch the props feet. Typically, their feet should not move at the hit, but if they are stepping back or out could be a problem.
 

Dixie


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I've never been able to discern the signs (if it ever happens). It's really a disparity of vigour in the engagement; the way to manage it to tell the SH that as there is this disparity, he will be unable to put the ball in until you are satisfied that the scrum is over the mark - which may require some to-ing and fro-ing. Free kick the feeding SH if he ignores this instruction. The onus is now on the more aggressive pack to either ameliorate the power of their engagement, or else having "got a nudge on", to de-nudge before the scrummage starts.

Question - doesn't this unwarrantedly depower the aggressive scrum? No - it is a legal requirement.

[LAWS] 20.1(a) Where the scrum takes place. The place for a scrum is where the infringement or stoppage happened, or as near to it as is practicable in the field of play, unless otherwise stated in Law.[/LAWS]

[LAWS]20.1(j) Stationary and parallel. Until the ball leaves the scrum half’s hands, the scrum must be stationary and the middle line must be parallel to the goal lines. A team must not shove the scrum away from the mark before the ball is thrown in.
Sanction: Free Kick[/LAWS]

When you hear "They aren't taking the hit, Sir", what you are really hearing is: you've blown the whistle because the scrum has splintered/fallen over/travelled a mile, and we don't want you to ping us for the 20.1(j) offence we just committed.
 

Mike Whittaker


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what are the signs to watch out for if you suspect a front row is deliberately not taking the hit as opposed to simply not being strong enough either/or both,physically or technically?

Wrighty, I notice you are a school ref and not a society ref and guess you are talking about school games involving youngsters?

In which case your utmost priority has to be the safety of the engagement which requires the 2 front rows to come together and form a stable platform before the ball is put in. Your pre match briefing to the front rows should make this absolutely clear.

When the ball is put in they may push - straight. Deviation will be penalised and repetition will lead to uncontested scrums.

Think "Safety" and forget about the "hit".
 

wrighty


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totally agree mike,but my latest question is based around what i've seen on tv/rwc etc
 

Ciaran Trainor


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"ameliorate" Dixie great word. I'm always learning on this site
I'm going to try to slip that in for my Front row chat at Millom this week
 

SimonSmith


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"Ameliorate - wasn't she that female wot flew planes in the 30s sir?"
 

ChrisR

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Getting or taking the "hit" is not about power. It's about speed on the engage. It's about getting over the mark. If a team is "not taking the hit" it means they are not meeting the opponent over the mark.

If the front rows are not meeting over the mark then either one team is jumping the gun on "engage" or the other is slow to do so.

If they meet fairly but then one team gives ground then the other is getting an early push.

It has become stylish for referees to have a variable delay between "pause" and "engage". I think this leads to more problems than it solves. One side will get antsy and jump. Keep a steady cadence and be ruthless with the early starters.
 

Dixie


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"ameliorate" Dixie great word. I'm always learning on this site
I'm going to try to slip that in for my Front row chat at Millom this week

Keep a steady cadence and be ruthless with the early starters.
I once used the word "cadence" in my FR brief, and was roundly castigated by the bemused pack for doing so at the time. They moaned again in the bar afterwards, adn mentioned it scathingly in the ref assessment. God alone knows what their reaction would have been if I'd used "ameliorate" (or even "castigated") as well! IME, limit your language to what you'll hear on the X-factor or Corrie. Sadly, I watch neither.

If the front rows are not meeting over the mark then either one team is jumping the gun on "engage" or the other is slow to do so.
But as the call of Engage is an invitation rather than an instruction, the latter is more a minor concern than a real problem. See law 20.1(g).
 

Mike Whittaker


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But as the call of Engage is an invitation rather than an instruction, the latter is more a minor concern than a real problem. See law 20.1(g).

Penalising a team for not accepting an invitation - or even delaying the acceptance, would seem rather churlish in some quarters...
 

ChrisR

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And why is it an 'invitation'? Liability, that's why. The powers that be don't want referees telling players to perform an act that could injure them.
 
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