the Chiefs

[Ian_Cook]

Privileged White public school boys doing the haka is akin to Morris dancing. That is performing ancient rituals the significance of which they bearly understand. And yes after 260 years of occupation even Māori are loosing touch with their roots.

Except, of, course, you proceed from a false premise, and pontificate from a position of ignorance. You have no ****ing idea what you are talking about.

Take the example of Auckland Grammar, one of those "privileged white public schools" you are driveling on about. I have news for you - its neither privileged nor white. In 2019, Auckland Grammar's ethnic diversity was as follows

NZ European..... 1116 (43%)
Maori/Pasifica..... 332 (13%)
Asian................ 912 (35%)
International...... 159 (6%)*
Others................ 62 (2%)
TOTAL ROLL...... 2581

* -includes visiting students mostly from Europe, Africa, Papua New Guinea, Japan & China

Since less than half the student were white European, it rather shoots down your bullshit claim! Similar figures apply to other schools in the region, King's College, St Kentigerns, MAGS, etc.

Also, unlike English Public Schools, you don't get to send your kids to one just because you want to, no matter how "privileged" you might feel or how fat your wallet might be. All schools in NZ are zoned, that is, you have to live in that school zone to get your kids enrolled, and it is near impossible to get around that. In many cases, schools have a requirement that the child must also have done it's primary education in the same zone or an adjacent zone.

As far as the rugby teams go, it can sometimes be very much a game of "spot the white boy"


Public schools in NZ are nothing like public schools in Britain. You should stick to talking about things that you know something about - education in NZ is not one of them!

 

[L'irlandais]

So you didn’t see any non Māori performing the Haka? Fairly widespread occurrence.

Your anger is palatable, yet racism is alive and well in New Zealand whether you like it or not. Your interpretation of those statistics leaves alot to be desired. 43% White compared to 13% Māori/Pasifica means the Whites are not the minority group.
Ever more non-Māori are doing the haka – but shouldn’t be unless its integrity is preserved

But it isn’t, as some Europeans and North Americans seem to understand it, an act of unrestrained id. It isn’t necessarily just an outlet for anger. To the contrary: the best haka exercise control and consideration in word and motion. It’s a deliberate art like any other, albeit with a force far stronger.

Reaching the elite level of New Zealand rugby has become increasingly exclusive and inaccessible.
. Easy enough spot White boys in the first XV

As of February 2017, the average house price in the Auckland Grammar zone was $2.16 million and Westlake’s was $1.94 million. Attending certain state schools is becoming increasingly inaccessible to the average income earner.
... Rugby in New Zealand is no longer a ‘common man's’ game. Satisfying the demands of ‘high performance’ while also keeping boys without the privileges of a select elite in the game is a major challenge.

Sure it used to be far more egalitarian than English or Australian rugby. Used to be...

 

[TigerCraig]

So you didn’t see any non Māori performing the Haka? Fairly widespread occurrence.

Your anger is palatable, yet racism is alive and well in New Zealand whether you like it or not. Your interpretation of those statistics leaves alot to be desired. 43% White compared to 13% Māori/Pasifica means the Whites are not the minority group.
Ever more non-Māori are doing the haka – but shouldn’t be unless its integrity is preserved

But it isn’t, as some Europeans and North Americans seem to understand it, an act of unrestrained id. It isn’t necessarily just an outlet for anger. To the contrary: the best haka exercise control and consideration in word and motion. It’s a deliberate art like any other, albeit with a force far stronger.

Reaching the elite level of New Zealand rugby has become increasingly exclusive and inaccessible.
. Easy enough spot White boys in the first XV
Sure it used to be far more egalitarian than English or Australian rugby. Used to be...

How would you feel about non celts learning gaelic?

 

[Ian_Cook]

So you didn’t see any non Māori performing the Haka? Fairly widespread occurrence.

Irrelvant. Haka are relevant for ALL New Zealanders - this is pretty much understood universally throughout the country. Oh, you might get a few activists whinging about it, but they are a tiny, tiny minority of Maori. You'll find a slightly less tiny minority of European kiwis whinging about their kids "having to waste their time learning Maori at school" than Maori complaining about white people performing Haka!!

Privileged White public school boys doing the haka is akin to Morris dancing. That is performing ancient rituals the significance of which they bearly understand. And yes after 260 years of occupation even Māori are loosing touch with their roots.

Utter bullshit. Kapa Haka is taught as a cultural subject in schools and as part of Maori language and cultural studies. FFS Kapa Haka, instructors from the local Iwi come into the school to teach the students!!!! Those boys performing Haka not only fully understand the significance of it, they understand its history - in its correct context, the story that each Haka tells, and many of them can speak the language at least well enough to converse with fluent Maori speakers.

https://www.schoolnews.co.nz/2018/0...ream-schools-benefits-for-non-maori-students/

Your anger is palatable

The word is "palpable". Get it right!!

yet racism is alive and well in New Zealand whether you like it or not.

I have news for you, its also alive and well where you are from, and where you live..... whether you like it or not.

Your interpretation of those statistics leaves alot to be desired. 43% White compared to 13% Māori/Pasifica means the Whites are not the minority group.
Ever more non-Māori are doing the haka – but shouldn’t be unless its integrity is preserved

But it isn’t, as some Europeans and North Americans seem to understand it, an act of unrestrained id. It isn’t necessarily just an outlet for anger. To the contrary: the best haka exercise control and consideration in word and motion. It’s a deliberate art like any other, albeit with a force far stronger.

More utter Bullshit. It shows that the schools in question are not the exclusive "Privileged White public schools" that you claimed them to be.

Reaching the elite level of New Zealand rugby has become increasingly exclusive and inaccessible.
. Easy enough spot White boys in the first XV
Sure it used to be far more egalitarian than English or Australian rugby. Used to be...

Your sources of information are questionable at best, highly biased at worst. This is especially so in the link to this second article where they have cherry picked statistics to support their preferred narrative (notice how they have overlapped some ranges of years and completely left out other years and ranges of years - that is a red flag to a stats guru, it shows that those years probably contain figures that will almost certainly undermine their argument.

Really mate, you need to stop this crap before you embarrass yourself too much. Read my signature - its plainly obvious to me that all you have done is Googled a few words and come up with some articles of questionable accuracy to support your opinion, but the subject material is beyond your understanding because you don't live here; you don't have the grounding you need to even begin to understand it.

 

[L'irlandais]

Questioning cultural appropriation does not become the norm by convincing the likes of your good self and making you see the light, but rather because our generation will eventually die and a new generation grows up that is familiar with such cultural norms.

Mr Narayanan noted it wasn’t just Asian Kiwis who were facing abuse. “Māori New Zealanders are also facing abuse – whether guarding ancestral lands or just living peacefully in the home in Ponsonby. It’s not OK.

 

[Ian_Cook]

Questioning cultural appropriation does not become the norm by convincing the likes of your good self and making you see the light

There is no light to see

but rather because our generation will eventually die and a new generation grows up that is familiar with such cultural norms.

You underestimate our ability to teach our children well. Both my kids hate PC with a vengeance, and they're probably more politically liberal than I am..

Mr Narayanan noted it wasn’t just Asian Kiwis who were facing abuse. “Māori New Zealanders are also facing abuse – whether guarding ancestral lands or just living peacefully in the home in Ponsonby. It’s not OK.

Nice sentiments, but I don't see the term "cultural appropriation" anywhere.

Its really a waste of time debating this with you - you are a long way out of your depth when it come to the culture of this country, its like me trying to debate the potato famine with you (I know it happened, but that is the limit of my knowledge abut it)

Your entire "knowledge" (if we can even call it that) of NZ culture comes from Googleversity - as it says in my sig, you can't Google for understanding. The guy I quoted there also has another oft-used quote ... "Never underestimate the power of the Internet to lend unwarranted credibility to the colossally misinformed." - when it comes to NZ culture, you are colossally misinformed.

 

[L'irlandais]

It is reassuring to be called misinformed by those who actively debate Moon Landing myths and discuss with Flat earthers. Real life is far more interesting than such fictional topics. [LAWS]Social justice warrior (SJW) is a pejorative term for an individual who promotes socially progressive views, including feminism, civil rights, and multiculturalism.
[/LAWS]Hardly appropriate for a forum moderator to use prejorative terms.

 

[Ian_Cook]

It is reassuring to be called misinformed by those who actively debate Moon Landing myths and discuss with Flat earthers.

I don't discuss anything with those idiots, I debunk them and ridicule them.

Real life is far more interesting than such fictional topics.

Yep... I'm not surprised that you think the Moon Landings were fiction, about what I would expect from you.

Social justice warrior (SJW) is a pejorative term for an individual who promotes socially progressive views, including feminism, civil rights, and multiculturalism.

Poppycock! Social justice warrior is a term for professional time wasters who go out of their way to take offence on behalf of others who, for the most part, are not even offended. Just because you read something in the internet does not make it true, even if you copy/pasta from Wikipedia!

Hardly appropriate for a forum moderator to use prejorative terms.

Its "pejorative", not "prejorative", get it right!

In any case, its hardly appropriate for a social justice warrior to be a conspiracy theorist

If you knew anything at all about me (and you clearly do not) you would also know that I am not a racist, and I am a strong believer in diversity and inclusiveness and all aspects of life (or have you forgotten the previous discussions here about homophobia, racism and inclusiveness?) However I draw the line at political correctness. l have seen so many examples of completely off the wall crap by SJWs that I have lost patience with them. Just Google "GAP Photo Controversy" to see just one example of their mind-numbing stupidity.

The freedom to voice one's own opinion is a fundamental right (although it does not mean that such voicing should be free from consequences if it is harmful or dangerous). Political Correctness originates in Mao's China, a regime in which millions were massacred, and being “politically incorrect” is an offence that can be punishable by death. AFAIC, Political correctness is giving up your right to voice your own opinions in order to keep a bunch of assholes happy, its fascism pretending to be manners, applied by virtue signalling narcissists who are speaking for offended parties that are not present or who simply do not exist.

 

[L'irlandais]

Your obviously far to busy debunking nonsense to take the time to read what I wrote.
Bit of a grammar nazi too it seems.
Skeptics forum you say.

One characteristic feature of false skepticism is that it "centres not on an impartial search for the truth, but on the defence of a preconceived ideological position.

Wilson, Richard C. (2008). Don't get fooled again: the sceptic's guide to life. Icon. ISBN*978-1-84831-014-8

 

[SimonSmith]

This is starting to get a bit past the point of constructive debate.

In the same way that I wouldn't lecture any of the African American players on my team about racism in America, I think it ill behoves anyone to lecture someone in another country about the cultural integration in that country, especially since it's a nuanced subject and you seem to be taking a sledgehammer approach.

No society has clean hands in this. Some societies are doing better than others.

 

[L'irlandais]

Fair enough. I am happy to drop it.
What annoyed me is the denial that there even is an issue. I haven’t made it up.
Growing up Māori in NZ: My daily experience of racism

One minute you’re defending your tribe in class. Next minute you get told to lead the haka or speak at a powhiri for the school.

Those genuinely interested in the truth, can recognize the contradiction which exists in present day society. This 18 year old’s Māori background only interests folk when they need his authenticity, otherwise it’s **** off mate you not white.

 

[Ian_Cook]

Fair enough. I am happy to drop it.
What annoyed me is the denial that there even is an issue. I haven’t made it up.
Growing up Māori in NZ: My daily experience of racism


Those genuinely interested in the truth, can recognize the contradiction which exists in present day society. This 18 year old’s Māori background only interests folk when they need his authenticity, otherwise it’s **** off mate you not white.

No-one, absolutely no-one here has accused you of making things up, and no-one has denied that it is an issue, and a serious one. Those of us lucky enough to live in this country, know this full well!

Your problem is you are proceeding from a knowledge base that is limited to what you can Google. You don't live here, you've never been here. I've lived here for 60 years - I grew up with Pasifika people, I went to school with them, I have had them as neighbours and friends and workmates. I have learned things about living in a community like this; things you will never learn at Googleversity.

 

[crossref]

I wonder if all the mascots will be taking a knee this weekend ..and whether that is part of why big chief had to go (would not have been a good look)

 

[Not Kurt Weaver]

I wonder if all the mascots will be taking a knee this weekend ..and whether that is part of why big chief had to go (would not have been a good look)

Why are the mascots kneeling?

Why would it not be a good look for Big Chief to kneel?

 

[crossref]

it looks like only three clubs are doing it - not inc Exeter

https://www.theguardian.com/sport/2...n-will-restart-with-three-teams-taking-a-knee

it's for black lives matter.

I think it would look odd to be taking part in a gesture like this effectively wearing redface

(but I guess you could also argue it would look a bit flippant to take part while dressed as a bear / tiger / wasp - ..)

 

[Not Kurt Weaver]

it's for black lives matter.

I think it would look odd to be taking part in a gesture like this effectively wearing redface

(

I think it looks odd that the players only kneel before the game, wouldn't it be more effective if they knelt the entire game

 

[OB..]

[...] wouldn't it be more effective if they knelt the entire game

Many years ago I went to collect my daughter from her gymnastics club and I was early, so the previous session was still going - aikido. The instructor was demonstrating "knee-walking". It was amazing just how fast he got around.

 

[Dickie E]

https://www.theage.com.au/culture/m...s-bad-religion-run-amuck-20200813-p55lfm.html

well said, that man!

 

[Ian_Cook]

https://www.theage.com.au/culture/m...s-bad-religion-run-amuck-20200813-p55lfm.html

well said, that man!

"A force that finds its meaning in the cancellation of these difficult ideas hampers the creative spirit of a society and strikes at the complex and diverse nature of its culture," Cave wrote."But this is where we are. We are a culture in transition, and it may be that we are heading toward a more equal society — I don’t know — but what essential values will we forfeit in the process?"

If we continue down this path, we may end up with a more diverse and fairer society, but at what cost?

IMO, we will be in danger of becoming a boring, humourless society. Religion will be replaced by Compliance as the opium of the people, humans stripped of their individuality, living in little "ticky-tacky" boxes; a society in which diversity of opinion will not exist - every member afraid to say or do anything for fear of angering the great God Political Correctness, with humans' freedom to express, innovate and be creative having long been sacrificed on the altar of Social Justice.

We will have a society with no soul!

 

[SimonSmith]

It seems to me that the majority of people complaining about "cancel culture" tend to be white, and slightly older.