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L'irlandais

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The aforementioned Nick Cave, in December 2018, condemned a cultural boycott of Israel.
Older, white and with a racist tendencies.

Nick Cave is wrong to perform in Israel
Just as many artists chose to boycott South African apartheid, so should they do today with Israeli apartheid.
...Regardless of his politics and his best intentions, his performance there would help Israel present itself as an open and vibrant society and cover up its decades-old oppression that us Palestinians have been suffering under.

Similarly, artists from around the world a generation ago were presented with the choice to heed the South African call to boycott apartheid South Africa and refuse complicity in that brutal system of institutionalised segregation and discrimination.

In the words of a recent UN report, ‘Israel has established an apartheid regime that dominates the Palestinian people’.

It is easy to see Nick Cave is wrong on this issue:
The call for the boycott, also supported inside Israel, is intended primarily as being with Palestinians and Israelis showing solidarity, rather than against anything but apartheid conditions.
Cave noted that the loss of his son gave him “a deep feeling toward other people and an absolute understanding of their suffering”, but to claim such a high mantle, Cave must do better with all those who have suffered, more extensively and avoidably than he has, and might reasonably consider distancing himself from regimes that institutionalise such suffering. There is a danger in assuming a universality of knowing on the back of life experience so Western-rooted, especially if Cave is then willing to wield this subjective understanding to the disadvantage of non-white populations facing the might of western militarism.
..In some respect, Cave is only walking the well-trodden path of the celebrated musician with a faulty political compass.
[LAWS]Cave misses the basic point that when a group has privilege equality comes to feel like a loss – with this same distinction at the core of understanding or not understanding the Israeli position on Palestine.[/LAWS]
Recalling musician's use of art to speak out against injustice, Palestinians urge Nick Cave to cancel concerts in Israel.

Even most Israelis are opposed to the Zionists. We are Israeli citizens, opposed to the Israeli government’s policies of oppression, occupation, apartheid and ethnic cleansing against the indigenous Palestinian people
 
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L'irlandais

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As Archbishop Desmond Tutu said:
If you are neutral in situations of injustice, you have chosen the side of the oppressor.” In 2010, Tutu had the following to say to the Cape Town Opera as they decided whether or not to perform in Israel:
“Just as we said during apartheid that it was inappropriate for international artists to perform in South Africa in a society founded on discriminatory laws and racial exclusivity, so it would be wrong for Cape Town Opera to perform in Israel.”
 

OB..


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IMO, we will be in danger of becoming a boring, humourless society. Religion will be replaced by Compliance as the opium of the people, humans stripped of their individuality, living in little "ticky-tacky" boxes; a society in which diversity of opinion will not exist - every member afraid to say or do anything for fear of angering the great God Political Correctness, with humans' freedom to express, innovate and be creative having long been sacrificed on the altar of Social Justice.

We will have a society with no soul!
China?
 

Not Kurt Weaver


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It seems to me that the majority of people complaining about "cancel culture" tend to be white, and slightly older.

The same people that also own the guns, imagine if it were the other way around. No one would be left to complain.
 

Not Kurt Weaver


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If we continue down this path, we may end up with a more diverse and fairer society, but at what cost?

IMO, we will be in danger of becoming a boring, humourless society. Religion will be replaced by Compliance as the opium of the people, humans stripped of their individuality, living in little "ticky-tacky" boxes; a society in which diversity of opinion will not exist - every member afraid to say or do anything for fear of angering the great God Political Correctness, with humans' freedom to express, innovate and be creative having long been sacrificed on the altar of Social Justice.

We will have a society with no soul!

It is worse than the bold letters

Eventually, every member will not even know how or what to say or do, the mere thought of saying and doing will non existent
 

Ian_Cook


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The aforementioned Nick Cave, in December 2018, condemned a cultural boycott of Israel.
Older, white and with a racist tendencies.

Nick Cave is wrong to perform in Israel
Just as many artists chose to boycott South African apartheid, so should they do today with Israeli apartheid.
...Regardless of his politics and his best intentions, his performance there would help Israel present itself as an open and vibrant society and cover up its decades-old oppression that us Palestinians have been suffering under.

Similarly, artists from around the world a generation ago were presented with the choice to heed the South African call to boycott apartheid South Africa and refuse complicity in that brutal system of institutionalised segregation and discrimination.

In the words of a recent UN report, ‘Israel has established an apartheid regime that dominates the Palestinian people’.

It is easy to see Nick Cave is wrong on this issue:
The call for the boycott, also supported inside Israel, is intended primarily as being with Palestinians and Israelis showing solidarity, rather than against anything but apartheid conditions.
[LAWS]Cave misses the basic point that when a group has privilege equality comes to feel like a loss – with this same distinction at the core of understanding or not understanding the Israeli position on Palestine.[/LAWS]
Recalling musician's use of art to speak out against injustice, Palestinians urge Nick Cave to cancel concerts in Israel.

Even most Israelis are opposed to the Zionists. We are Israeli citizens, opposed to the Israeli government’s policies of oppression, occupation, apartheid and ethnic cleansing against the indigenous Palestinian people


There is no "right", and no "wrong" there is only "opinion".

As Archbishop Desmond Tutu said:
If you are neutral in situations of injustice, you have chosen the side of the oppressor.” In 2010, Tutu had the following to say to the Cape Town Opera as they decided whether or not to perform in Israel:

Tutu's characterisation here is nothing more than a blatant attempt to invoke the old chesnut "if you're not for us you're against us". This is a false dichotomy - it always has been, and it always will be.
 
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Ian_Cook


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Yup, Chinese society is the ultimate expression of Political Correctness, where not only is it not "not done" to say certain things, it is illegal, with severe punishment for transgression. Death can be the result of saying the wrong words or doing the wrong things (see Tiananman Square 15 Apr 1989 – 4 Jun 1989), where a man has the bravery to stand in front of a row of tanks, and is later probably executed for doing so.

Don't anyone be fooled by "Chinese tourism". The Chinese tourists you see are the ones who are allowed out - those who are deemed "politically safe" - sufficiently indoctrinated to risk exposure to Western culture.
 
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crossref


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Will the mods ever close this thread ?
What are the mods for ?
 

Dickie E


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It seems to me that the majority of people complaining about "cancel culture" tend to be white, and slightly older.

interesting article:

https://www.vox.com/culture/2019/12...hows how incendiary cancel culture has become.


Loretta Ross is a self-identified liberal who’s come to hold a similar position. In an opinion piece for the New York Times, she wrote that as a black feminist, she finds cancel and call-out culture a “toxic” practice wherein “people attempt to expunge anyone with whom they do not perfectly agree, rather than remain focused on those who profit from discrimination and injustice.”
In Ross’s view, “most public shaming is horizontal” — that is, it’s not done to justifiably criticize people who are seriously dangerous, but to score brownie points against people who mean no harm. The people doing the canceling, she argues, “become the self-appointed guardians of political purity.”
 

Ian_Cook


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Will the mods ever close this thread ?
What are the mods for ?

Translation: You don't like the direction the discussion has taken, and you don't want people who have opinions that differ from yours to have a platform to say things you don't like.

So much for your support of free speech!
 

SimonSmith


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The aforementioned Nick Cave, in December 2018, condemned a cultural boycott of Israel.
Older, white and with a racist tendencies.

Nick Cave is wrong to perform in Israel
Just as many artists chose to boycott South African apartheid, so should they do today with Israeli apartheid.
...Regardless of his politics and his best intentions, his performance there would help Israel present itself as an open and vibrant society and cover up its decades-old oppression that us Palestinians have been suffering under.

Similarly, artists from around the world a generation ago were presented with the choice to heed the South African call to boycott apartheid South Africa and refuse complicity in that brutal system of institutionalised segregation and discrimination.

In the words of a recent UN report, ‘Israel has established an apartheid regime that dominates the Palestinian people’.

It is easy to see Nick Cave is wrong on this issue:
The call for the boycott, also supported inside Israel, is intended primarily as being with Palestinians and Israelis showing solidarity, rather than against anything but apartheid conditions.
[LAWS]Cave misses the basic point that when a group has privilege equality comes to feel like a loss – with this same distinction at the core of understanding or not understanding the Israeli position on Palestine.[/LAWS]
Recalling musician's use of art to speak out against injustice, Palestinians urge Nick Cave to cancel concerts in Israel.

Even most Israelis are opposed to the Zionists. We are Israeli citizens, opposed to the Israeli government’s policies of oppression, occupation, apartheid and ethnic cleansing against the indigenous Palestinian people

Your UN report was commissioned by Arab States: "ESCWA comprises 18 Arab states in Western Asia and aims to support economic and social development in member states, according to its website. The report was prepared at the request of member states, Khalaf said."
"U.N. spokesman Stephane Dujarric told reporters in New York that the report was published without any prior consultation with the U.N. secretariat."

You need to do MUCH better at sourcing your information. You're either really careless, deliberately misleading, or anti semitic. None of them is a good look for you.

The report was not endorsed by the UN Sec Gen...
 

L'irlandais

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Translation: You don't like the direction the discussion has taken, and you don't want people who have opinions that differ from yours to have a platform to say things you don't like.

So much for your support of free speech!
Oh the irony. You have put your finger on it.
The anti "cancel culture" letter piblished in Harper's Magazine must be understood in the context of the majority who signed it: a group of exceptionally wealthy and powerful people who cannot take criticism of their often prejudiced views and opinions. What these people do or have to say is becoming less valued as something special as public communication is being revolutionised by social media, but as elites this is something that many of these people are not used to. J. K. Rowling is a key example, can she really be described as a victim? She has so much money and so many platforms to reach her many millions of readers, no matter that she cannot be cancelled. Cancel culture will not be ended by the Harper's letter as for most that have signed it it say more about them than the wider culture, demonstrating that it is getting more difficult for many of these celebrities to navigate these changing times.
Source
My emboldening.
 

L'irlandais

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Your UN report was commissioned by Arab States: "ESCWA comprises 18 Arab states in Western Asia and aims to support economic and social development in member states, according to its website. The report was prepared at the request of member states, Khalaf said."
"U.N. spokesman Stephane Dujarric told reporters in New York that the report was published without any prior consultation with the U.N. secretariat."

You need to do MUCH better at sourcing your information. You're either really careless, deliberately misleading, or anti semitic. None of them is a good look for you.

The report was not endorsed by the UN Sec Gen...
Throwing the baby out with the bathwater as usual?
 

crossref


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Translation: You don't like the direction the discussion has taken, and you don't want people who have opinions that differ from yours to have a platform to say things you don't like.

So much for your support of free speech!

Not at all, it's because the thread lowers the quality and relevance of the forum . A well run forum is moderated so that stays more or less on topic
 
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Ian_Cook


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Throwing the baby out with the bathwater as usual?

Nope, he's not throwing out the baby with the bathwater at all... not even close

Your "baby" was a clearly biased report by ONE side in heated dispute that has gone on for over 2000 years. Said report was NOT endorsed by the General Assembly, the Security Council; the Economic & Social Council or the International Court of Justice, and was not approved by the Secretary General. As such, it carries no weight whatsoever. If you had bothered to do some actual research instead of Googling for what you wanted and stopping as soon as you found it you might have learned something.

There are two main dangers in Googling a few words to get some results for debate

1. You get the results that you want - ones that favour your position because of the choice of words you search,

2. You end up thinking you know everything about the issue because you think Google has given you all the knowledge,

This is what the Jay Windley quote in my signature refers to. Google will find you the raw information, but as any good scientist will tell you, the raw data is no good to you unless you know how to interpret it. Google results are worth diddly squat unless you understand what they mean, and that understanding often only comes with hours of reading and detailed research. Its why Googling the words "racism" and "New Zealand" together in a search (which is almost certainly what you did earlier in the thread) will not even get you close to an understanding of the issue. If you don't live here and are not immersed in the culture, it will take you weeks of reading and research - hours with your arse in a library chair reading reference books on the subject material. Anyone who has undertaken any form of tertiary education (and I have) will tell you that whipping up a few relevant articles from a Google search doesn't cut the mustard.
 

Phil E


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Will the mods ever close this thread ?
What are the mods for ?

We are all adults.
If people stop posting to a thread it will die off.
We are moderators not censors.
 

Ian_Cook


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Not at all, it's because the thread lowers the quality and relevance of the forum . A well run forum is moderated so that stays more or less on topic

The moderators here have always allowed General thread topics to go where the discussion takes them. I see no reason to change now just because it doesn't suit some posters.
 

L'irlandais

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Nope, he's not throwing out the baby with the bathwater at all... not even close

Your "baby" was a clearly biased report by ONE side in heated dispute that has gone on for over 2000 years.
Nope 95% of that post #341 was about how wrong Nick Cave is on the topic of canceling.
The inclusion of the UN report wa to back up the point that by playing in Tel Aviv he is bolstering a corrupt regime.
 
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