The final ruck of Brumbies vs Blues

Locke


Referees in America
Joined
Jan 23, 2022
Messages
38
Post Likes
13
Current Referee grade:
Level 10
#2 vs #1 on the table. Blues are down by 1 point, with possession, about 10 meters from the Brumbies’ goal line, time has passed the 80 minute mark.


Go to 5:45 of the highlight video linked above.

Does referee Damon Murphy get it right here? His view seems to be that Blue 7 is at the breakdown and thus when the Brumbies player makes contact as he does, the ruck is formed and he cannot use hands to poach.

I don’t see a way to award the steal to the Brumbies because Blue 7 is there but certainly a penalty to them for Blue 7 going off his feet is at least in consideration? Thoughts? It’s a close one, especially with how loosely players going off their feet is refereed at this level.
 

didds

Resident Club Coach
Joined
Jan 27, 2004
Messages
10,806
Post Likes
1,218
short of orange ! (?) not rolling away [ and he didnt impeded the ball from the scrum half IMO ] I cant see any blue PK award there. If anything its blue 7 off his feet, orange PK
 

Jarrod Burton


Referees in Australia
Joined
Jun 19, 2013
Messages
643
Post Likes
143
Current Referee grade:
Level 2
Does referee Damon Murphy get it right here? His view seems to be that Blue 7 is at the breakdown and thus when the Brumbies player makes contact as he does, the ruck is formed and he cannot use hands to poach.
I think he got it very wrong. Blue straight in off their feet with no attempt to stay up, but that's how showbiz ball is refereed and why we spend half our matches trying to keep players on their feet.
 

Phil E


Referees in England
Staff member
Joined
Jan 22, 2008
Messages
15,484
Post Likes
1,786
Current Referee grade:
Level 8
I think he got it very wrong. Blue straight in off their feet with no attempt to stay up, but that's how showbiz ball is refereed and why we spend half our matches trying to keep players on their feet.

To ping Blue for that would be a bit of a rabbit out of the hat because they did it at all the previous rucks in that sequence. Ping them all or none of them.
 

didds

Resident Club Coach
Joined
Jan 27, 2004
Messages
10,806
Post Likes
1,218
To ping Blue for that would be a bit of a rabbit out of the hat because they did it at all the previous rucks in that sequence. Ping them all or none of them.
and therein lies much of the problem.
 

Jarrod Burton


Referees in Australia
Joined
Jun 19, 2013
Messages
643
Post Likes
143
Current Referee grade:
Level 2
To ping Blue for that would be a bit of a rabbit out of the hat because they did it at all the previous rucks in that sequence. Ping them all or none of them.
And what a crazy system we have now at the upper levels. If I had a ref tell me as a coach that "I didn't ping them for the last x rucks so I couldn't ping them then " I'd be asking why they didn't enforce the laws properly and rewarded one team for infringing but not the other. A major refereeing error for mine.
 

Phil E


Referees in England
Staff member
Joined
Jan 22, 2008
Messages
15,484
Post Likes
1,786
Current Referee grade:
Level 8
And what a crazy system we have now at the upper levels. If I had a ref tell me as a coach that "I didn't ping them for the last x rucks so I couldn't ping them then " I'd be asking why they didn't enforce the laws properly and rewarded one team for infringing but not the other. A major refereeing error for mine.

Next thing we will have coaches asking for consistency!
 

Jarrod Burton


Referees in Australia
Joined
Jun 19, 2013
Messages
643
Post Likes
143
Current Referee grade:
Level 2
Next thing we will have coaches asking for consistency!
I understand where you are coming from, but there is no use consistently calling a law incorrectly and then having a game decided with a referee making a bad call, which could have been dealt with by applying the law set properly, earlier in the match to avoid painting himself into a corner re consistency.
 

Phil E


Referees in England
Staff member
Joined
Jan 22, 2008
Messages
15,484
Post Likes
1,786
Current Referee grade:
Level 8
I understand where you are coming from, but there is no use consistently calling a law incorrectly and then having a game decided with a referee making a bad call, which could have been dealt with by applying the law set properly, earlier in the match to avoid painting himself into a corner re consistency.

I have only see the clip, but I would put money on it that they were flopping off their feet like that all game. It's just how they ref it at that level.
 

Jarrod Burton


Referees in Australia
Joined
Jun 19, 2013
Messages
643
Post Likes
143
Current Referee grade:
Level 2
I have only see the clip, but I would put money on it that they were flopping off their feet like that all game. It's just how they ref it at that level.
Completely agree. Makes it much harder for us all in the weeds but as long as the ultimate goal of super rugby etc is $, the topcats won't care, as long as people pay to watch.
 

tim White


Referees in England
Joined
Mar 14, 2005
Messages
1,868
Post Likes
113
I've said before -I see a split coming between the 'Professional' game and grass roots rugby. It's not how we want to play the game; the laws clearly state Rucks are for people ON THEIR FEET. People off their feet are either out of the game or infringing.

Life used to be so simple.
 

Stu10

Rugby Club Member
Joined
Mar 10, 2020
Messages
193
Post Likes
59
Current Referee grade:
Level 15 - 11
I also agree with others here, Blue 7 off feet and sealing off the ball... it should be penalty to Orange, but hard to give if this has been allowed all match; however, I think it is particularly poor form to consider the ruck formed due to the involvement of Blue 7 and thus penalise Orange.
 

Stu10

Rugby Club Member
Joined
Mar 10, 2020
Messages
193
Post Likes
59
Current Referee grade:
Level 15 - 11
I've said before -I see a split coming between the 'Professional' game and grass roots rugby. It's not how we want to play the game; the laws clearly state Rucks are for people ON THEIR FEET. People off their feet are either out of the game or infringing.

Life used to be so simple.
Almost every time I watch a ruck at elite level, it amazes me when everyone gets up again at the end... Players smashing in, going right through the ruck (and off feet), and players getting cleared by huge impacts or twisting... It's brutal with little regard to player preservation.
 

Old Pig

New member
Joined
Jun 4, 2022
Messages
4
Post Likes
4
Current Referee grade:
Level 15 - 11
I don’t disagree with the above comments.
I guess, in trying to find justification, you may be able to say blue 7 went off his feet in the action of cleaning out. Orange 12 seemed to be his target, but pulled back, leaving 7 no one to drive, hence lost footing. With the speed and skill of players at this level, the clean out has to be so low, that it is inevitable that player will loose their feet at the tackle/ruck.
But….. 7 then went on with it. If he rolled away from the direct action, that would show intent. The fact he stayed on top of the tackled player and actively protected the ball seems like a pretty blatant PK.
 
Top