They have to wait for us sir?

[Phil E]

Do you think the "same ball" matters?

No because it's not a quick throw in, it's a quickly taken lineout.

 

[crossref]

No because it's not a quick throw in, it's a quickly taken lineout.

What does have to be in place ?
Throwing team either in line or all 10m back ?
Defending team either in line or 10m back ?
Defending hooker in tramlines?

All of the above? None of the above ?

 

[Locke]

What does have to be in place ?
Throwing team either in line or all 10m back ?
Defending team either in line or 10m back ?
Defending hooker in tramlines?

All of the above? None of the above ?

I would think if opponents are generally in position and the throwing team throw in when their own players are offside or otherwise infringing, they get pinged and their impetuousness has cost them.
If throwing team throw in too quickly for opponents to get in position and back 10m, at my (low) level, especially if some of the opponents were still filtering across the mark of touch, I would probably whistle it dead and require a “proper” line out. I read nothing in the law that states clearly that is correct but I read the intent to be that if a quick throw in is not available for any of the reasons listed, a “standard” line out is what is prescribed.
If not, it seems like chaos could immediately ensue. Example:
A red player boots the ball from his own half, some 50 meters down the field and it goes indirectly into touch, 50/22 rule, line out to red. 3 red chasers and 2 blue defenders are almost immediately at the mark. A spectator caught the ball that was kicked so QTI is off the table. Many from both teams are jogging to get in position for the line out but are still 20 meters away. If one of red chasers picks up a/the ball, stands in touch, at the mark, and throws in 5m+, straight down the channel, with two blue players there, while the other 25 players on the field are still making their way to get in position, I’m thinking that can’t be what is intended to be legal?
The law says a line out is “formed”. It says each team must have at least two players from each team to “form” a line out. I read that as a necessary but not sufficient condition for the “forming” of a line out; you must have it but it is not the only thing you must have.

 

[Dickie E]

Do you think the "same ball" matters?

I'm not sure I understand your question. If your question is "would the game be worse off if a QTI could be taken with a different ball?" then I would answer yes

 

[Dickie E]

There was a subtle law change a few years ago that went along these lines:

previously - the throwing team had to allow their opponents sufficient time to match numbers
now - the throwing team doesn't have to allow their opponents time to match numbers but the opponents haven't committed an offence if they didn't have time.

So, for me, a quickly taken LO can occur provided the throwing team are complying with law (eg backs 10 metres, etc) even if non-throwing players are still assembling (eg no player in tram tracks).

If throwing team aren't complying with law (eg backs inside 10) then they should be penalised.

 

[didds]

Do you think the "same ball" matters?

not for a "quickly taken lineout", no. The laws dont require it.

 

[didds]

There was a subtle law change a few years ago that went along these lines:

previously - the throwing team had to allow their opponents sufficient time to match numbers
now - the throwing team doesn't have to allow their opponents time to match numbers but the opponents haven't committed an offence if they didn't have time.

Ye.e.e.e.sss... but that only reflected common practise anyway AIUI. In that if the ball was thrown in before the oppo had a chance to equal numbers, refs would sensibly just ignore the requirement for equal numbers - at least thats what I gleaned form these pages/forums.

So all the law inclusion/addition did was formalise common practice.

 

[Phil E]

The times a quickly taken lineout has happened in my games (not very often).

The attacking team are all set, lineout formed, backs 10m away, all ready to go.
The defenders have their backs more or less inline, but the forwards are milling about at the line of touch, trying to decide who is on and who is out. Some are on the line of touch, some are still trying to decide.

The attacking hooker then usually asks "can we go sir?"
To which I answer "yes" because there is no basis in law to stop them. In fact the wording of the law makes it legal as I have already quoted.

 

[crossref]

The times a quickly taken lineout has happened in my games (not very often).

The attacking team are all set, lineout formed, backs 10m away, all ready to go.
The defenders have their backs more or less inline, but the forwards are milling about at the line of touch, trying to decide who is on and who is out. Some are on the line of touch, some are still trying to decide.

The attacking hooker then usually asks "can we go sir?"
To which I answer "yes" because there is no basis in law to stop them. In fact the wording of the law makes it legal as I have already quoted.

So is it necessary to make sure the ref is ready ?

 

[Ciaran Trainor]

So is it necessary to make sure the ref is ready ?

That's where I started this Crossref, so for me yes .
Attacking team ready, I've made mark and moved to my position, so if I wasn't ready we can't go or I'd ask them to go again.
As Phil E said., teams usualy ask "can we go sir"

 

[crossref]

That's where I started this Crossref, so for me yes .
Attacking team ready, I've made mark and moved to my position, so if I wasn't ready we can't go or I'd ask them to go again.
As Phil E said., teams usualy ask "can we go sir"

i wonder if Scotland asked/warned BOK ? (they certainly didn't warn the AR )

If they did ask BOK, was it a good decision to say 'yes'
if they didn't ask BOK... then he should have brought it back?

 

[didds]

there was a strong suggestion on BM666's podcast from the weekend's games that Scotland had warned the ref that they would be wanting to go quickly whenever they could.

 

[didds]

... and which comes back to my question earlier... why does the AR/TJ stay on the touchline once they've made a mark (and not even that if they are to leave it to the ref to make a TL mark, or not bother etc) ?

 

[crossref]

... and which comes back to my question earlier... why does the AR/TJ stay on the touchline once they've made a mark (and not even that if they are to leave it to the ref to make a TL mark, or not bother etc) ?

It was weird, I think normal practice for an AR is to make a mark and then stand back

 

[chbg]

It was weird, I think normal practice for an AR is to make a mark and then stand back

How often do these international ARs practice?

 

[didds]

I did a club TJ course about a million years ago.

It never once when TJ-ing entered my head to

flag touch
make a mark for LoT


THEN

just stand with a flag up and arm out stood right on the mark.

but what do i know? Im not an international AR.

 

[crossref]

So can I summarise the discussion by saying that

When 2 players from each team arrive at the line of touch
The ball now cannot be thrown in, as QTI not possible
But also at the same moment
The ball now can be throw in, as lineout is formed

Hmm

 

[chbg]

So can I summarise the discussion by saying that

When 2 players from each team arrive at the line of touch
The ball now cannot be thrown in backwards from behind the line of touch, as QTI not possible
But also at the same moment
The ball now can be throw in straight along the line of touch, as lineout is formed

Hmm

FTFY

 

[crossref]

yes, they are different.

Another difference of course, it may be (see above) that the player has to ask the ref if he can go, before he can take a quickly taken lineout (?)

Q: when taking a line out quickly, when no one is expecting it, can the hooker throw the ball to himself ?

 

[didds]

yes, they are different.

Another difference of course, it may be (see above) that the player has to ask the ref if he can go, before he can take a quickly taken lineout (?)

Q: when taking a line out quickly, when no one is expecting it, can the hooker throw the ball to himself ?

the ref may be 20m away at that juncture ?