U10 New Rules Query

[Steve]

Hi,


I currently referee at U10 level in Somerset and have referee'd our team since U7s. I apply the NRoP as consistently as possible (at least I like to think I do!) but I am confused by the regional variances between counties even when the NRoP have been adopted.


Today would be an ideal example - we played away against a Devon team who allowed 3 or players from their team to ruck over although my understanding of the NWoP was for ball carrier, tackler plus 1 from either team to ruck over the ball. We have followed this so far this season with equal understanding from other Somerset opponents but today, it was referee'd and allowed with 3 on 1 or even 4 on 1; I could understand more if the referee allowed an even contest, say 2 on 2 etc but we lost the ball in the ruck frequently. Would it be considered acceptable to allow an even contest with more than the 'allowed' standard number if players?


Also, more an observation really, but is there an obligation for teams to provide a referee for each age group as I have frequently been asked to referee on away games? I am more than happy to referee home games and festivals but really like the opportunity to watch my son and the team as a whole when possible; although you see the whole game when refereeing, there is no chance to follow your own child which is very frustrating.


Any comments most welcome. Great forum by the way!
Steve

 

[crossref]

Welcome to the site, Steve. You are not the first person to arrive this season looking for clarity on the NROP.... Hopefully this will prove a good site to discuss your question.

The short answer to your question on providing referees is 'no' !
Of course it's customary for the home team to referee, and when your age group is older they might play in organised leagues where there will be a league regulation obliging the home team to sort out a referee. But at U10 you are no doubt playing friendles... you are being very public spirited.

 

[JJ10]

Wow. Only 2 players allowed to ruck at U10? I don't remember ever playing by those rules (it wasn't that long ago!) I would really struggle to go and referee that I think. After so much mens rugby it would probably end up being the free for all i remember at that age!

As for being asked to ref away from home - i think at junior/mini rugby the home team really should cough up a ref. I'd probably have my boots and gear in the car though for emergencies.

Finally, you are right - this is a great site. I don't post all that much but read frequently, and its very informative for referees at all levels.

 

[AntonyGoodman]

Hi Steve,

To take your question on who is refereeing in your away games: We are lucky in the sense that we have 30+ boys and 5 coaches, this allows us to specialize somewhat, I get the joy of the refereeing . When we play other clubs we frequently have more than one match on the go at the same time, and quite often have time for two games. So I will referee one game while one of their coaches referees another, if time allows for more than one game, we might then swap the refs/teams around. When we visit some smaller clubs, I quite often get asked to referee, and I have no problem doing it as we have other coaches to help out. I completely understand your point of view if you are the only coach visiting a club, they should definitely be providing the main ref.

On the question of numbers, they should be sticking to the numbers limit at the breakdown. If I find a rule being played inconsistently, I will always check with the opposition and confirm an agreed point of view before the games. It is unfair on the boys otherwise, and I feel a bit sneaky of the opposition. Usually it is these coaches who think the boys should be playing full 15 a side adult rules, not some sort of 'watered down' (in their mind) version of the game Any discussion on numbers you are going to win, as there is no disputing that bit of the NRoP.

Thanks,

Antony

 

[Browner]

Hi,


I currently referee at U10 level in Somerset and have referee'd our team since U7s. I apply the NRoP as consistently as possible (at least I like to think I do!) but I am confused by the regional variances between counties even when the NRoP have been adopted.


Today would be an ideal example - we played away against a Devon team who allowed 3 or players from their team to ruck over although my understanding of the NWoP was for ball carrier, tackler plus 1 from either team to ruck over the ball. We have followed this so far this season with equal understanding from other Somerset opponents but today, it was referee'd and allowed with 3 on 1 or even 4 on 1; I could understand more if the referee allowed an even contest, say 2 on 2 etc but we lost the ball in the ruck frequently. Would it be considered acceptable to allow an even contest with more than the 'allowed' standard number if players?

Any comments most welcome. Great forum by the way!
Steve

Welcome Steve,
U10 NRoP 6. does not appear to have any restriction on 'rucking' numbers, instead it prescribes the 'forming' minimum. Maul is different.

Accordingly , I'd say the Somerset restrictions are the inaccurate interpretation.

 

[AntonyGoodman]

It was worded better in last years version of the U10 rules, but it is definitely 1 vs 1. Have a look at the key elements section at the top of the U10 NRoP. Also see 6.m) mentions only ONE player.
Thanks,

Antony

 

[Steve]

Thanks Antony. I was about to post this but was logged out!


'Many thanks for the prompt replies everyone, much appreciated.

Referring to Browner's comment, the NRoP does state -


The key elements of the Under 10s Rules of Play are:
• Team numbers: 7 or 8-a-side
• Maximum pitch size: 60 metres x 35 metres
• Ball Size: 4
• Introduction of uncontested scrum
• Nearest 3 players in scrum (all players trained, late specialisation)
• Contest for the ball (1 player v 1 player)
• Introduction of Maul
• Introduction of Ruck


The more I read this, the more unsure I am about what it is actually specifying. Is it simply stating the contest is one player from either side only to contest the ball or is it stating as long as there is one player from either side, the contest can be 1 v 1, 2 v 2, 3 v 3 providing it is an even and fair contest?


Just for reference, the reason I feel certain the laws read as ball carrier, tackler plus 1 from either side contesting in the ruck is because I, and a number of other coaches / volunteer refs attended an RFU workshop on the NRoP recently in September. Its seems different clubs interpret the same laws differently but it doesn't help the players from either side when inconsistency is apparent.


Incidentally, I do enjoy the refereeing (in case I gave the impression I didn't) and it feels very rewarding albeit a steep learning curve with every season and its new additions to the rules. I have been working on getting one of my parent helpers (an ex player) to take the Referee course to ease the reliance on one person to referee, particularly difficult when in festivals with 2 teams and we only supply one referee.


Thanks again, Steve'

 

[AntonyGoodman]

Sorry Steve, think we cross posted. See U10s regulation 6.m) (I edited the post above). Clear it should only be 1 vs 1. And as you say, on RFU workshops we have been on, it is clear that this is what they have been told.

We played a full season last year, we didn't have anybody disputing that regulation.

Thanks,

Antony

 

[AntonyGoodman]

One thing I find useful is to look at the rules for the age group progression and see what it says there, U11 NRoP says 2 vs 2, U12 NRoP says unlimited. These all are things that might help see what progression the RFU had in mind for these regulations, help work out what they are trying to achieve, and what the regulation at your age group should be.

Thanks,

Antony

 

[Browner]

Sorry Steve, think we cross posted. See U10s regulation 6.m) (I edited the post above). Clear it should only be 1 vs 1. And as you say, on RFU workshops we have been on, it is clear that this is what they have been told.

We played a full season last year, we didn't have anybody disputing that regulation.

Thanks,

Antony

You're right, 6 (m) makes it clear.

Apols ....etc

 

[Phil E]

The purpose of this rule is to stop all the players diving into a ruck (bees and honey pots) and:

a. probably making it unplayable
b. higher risk of injury
c. keeping formation, keeping space, keeping the ball in play.

Its a progression thing and Antony is right, reading the rules above and below the grade you are interested in will help explain the intent of them.

 

[Dan_A]

I've experienced both old and new u10 rules but I'm mainly refereeing u10s at the moment. Working with the coaches we've come up with an approach that seems to work. When the ball carrier is brought to ground I call "Tackle, release" then as soon as then next player gets there its "Ruck, only one in, no hands". Or for a maul then as soon as the maul is formed its "Maul, only one in, no collapsing"

One interesting aspect thing that has cropped up is when, as a supporting player, you can and can't "pick and go". Our reading is that after a tackle the first supporting player can make a ruck or pick and go or pickup and pass. However, if the first player joins the ruck then the next supporting player has to pickup and pass (not ruck and not pick and go).

Takes some getting used to, be we are now seeing some long periods of open play with a lot of running and passing. And its certainly better than what I experienced under the old rules with mauls and rucks being v messy and therefore nowhere near as much clean ball to run and pass.

 

[AntonyGoodman]

Yep Dan, you have it spot on. Exactly the kind of calls we used to help manage the game.

You are correct on your reading of the players arriving at the breakdown regulations.

Thanks,

Antony

 

[OB..]

The key elements of the Under 10s Rules of Play are:
• Team numbers: 7 or 8-a-side
• Maximum pitch size: 60 metres x 35 metres
• Ball Size: 4
• Introduction of uncontested scrum
• Nearest 3 players in scrum (all players trained, late specialisation)
• Contest for the ball (1 player v 1 player)
• Introduction of Maul
• Introduction of Ruck'

I was at a U10s competition on Sunday (grandson was playing) but am no expert on the NROP.

The referees were all provided by the host club, and the ones I saw were consistent in allowing 2 players from each side to be in a ruck (not counting the tackler and tackled player). There were many penalties for "Three in".

Nobody enforced the "3 nearest" rule for forming a scrum. All teams had a regular front row, and would call them in from wherever they happened to be. No referees reacted to this at all.

 

[Dan_A]

I was at a U10s competition on Sunday (grandson was playing) but am no expert on the NROP.

The referees were all provided by the host club, and the ones I saw were consistent in allowing 2 players from each side to be in a ruck (not counting the tackler and tackled player). There were many penalties for "Three in".

Nobody enforced the "3 nearest" rule for forming a scrum. All teams had a regular front row, and would call them in from wherever they happened to be. No referees reacted to this at all.

I can understand using "Three in" as shorthand but I would be including the ball carrier and tackler as the "first in" then allowing one more from each side.

 

[Stormkahn]

Nobody enforced the "3 nearest" rule for forming a scrum. All teams had a regular front row, and would call them in from wherever they happened to be. No referees reacted to this at all.

In all our games the refs use this to keep the game flowing rather than as a specific rule to be applied, if a scrum is called for and 3 lads are forming up pronto the ref will always let it go; if they're fannying about then he will point out players to chivvy the game along.

Of course the more organised teams will make sure their forwards are front and center....

What we do keep a close eye on is the defending scrum half being off-side, they must stay in the pocket until the ball is called out.

cheers,

Dave.

 

[AntonyGoodman]

Yep, agree Dave. All about the pace of the game.

Antony

 

[Steve]

Many thanks to all for your input and experiences.


Different interpretations of the same rules between counties seems to produce inconsistency week on week resulting in a rather demoralising effect on the kids as they try accommodate yet another interpretation. Certainly, in my experience, there is enough confusion about the rules because of the players varying experiences with Rugby in schools, we need clarity in our club Rugby. For some of the lads it's their first season of any kind of Rugby, others play Tag in the state schools and some even play two different sets of rules in their private school, resulting in 3 different rule sets within any given week.


I am getting off topic now but it frustrates me that there seems to be no real commitment from some schools to follow the RFU recommendations and introduce the NRoP although I am aware some do; there is definite logic behind the progressive introductions of new elements for each age group. The inconsistency in schools makes coaching quite a difficult task sometimes as competency and confidence levels are so varied throughout the squad but no doubt, this is for a different thread entirely!!


Thanks again.
Steve

 

[crossref]

Steve - yes, we have all been there. The organisation of youth rugby in clubs v schools is nothing short of farcical, and it's appalling (in my mind) that the RFU can't sort this out.

I can't believe they are spending money implementing the NROP without bothering about the burning platform : getting one of set of Laws that work across independent school, state school and club

the schools don't actually belong to the RFU they belong to the ESRFU - the English Schools RFU who are technically a constuent body of the RFU, but seem to be a force of their own.

U11 I rember as being the very worst year with state primary schools playing tag, prep schools playing 15 a side and clubs playing a restricted contact game.

 

[AntonyGoodman]

U11 I remember as being the very worst year with state primary schools playing tag, prep schools playing 15 a side and clubs playing a restricted contact game.

Hasn't changed. You can see the look in their eye as they realise they have made a mistake in one game that would have got them a round of applause in another.