[In-goal] Unclear what happened in in goal

Dickie E


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the kick & chase deserved a try
 

Arabcheif

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Looked like there was a knock on after the ball came out of the ruck. There didn't seem to be a grounding and I didn't see a knock on. SO play on for me,unless there's something different for In-Goal. As play had been stopped for the "try" would it not have been a scrum - 5 to the attacking team as they were in possession last?
 

DocY


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For me it was no try .. 22m DO

How so?

Given the referee had already blown without the ball being made dead or clearly knocked on, it's a "stoppage not explicitly covered" and a scrum.
 

Jz558


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On the basis he didn't ground the ball for the try, ball lost forward, scrum 5 to Spain. Had the ref not blown to review the touch down, play advantage to Spain.
 

crossref


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How so?

Given the referee had already blown without the ball being made dead or clearly knocked on, it's a "stoppage not explicitly covered" and a scrum.

Yes you are correct.
 

DocY


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I actually asked this as a management problem, rather than law, and ignoring what the referee on the day actually did.

The law is clear that (if you believe neither possible event was clear) it should be play on, but I expect that'd upset both teams!
 

Marc Wakeham


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In real time I'd award the try. The dropped ball "offence" is not C&O. The Ruck knock-on is unclear from the ref's angle. With a TMO I'd expect them to pick bothe offenses correctly so back for the knock on.
 

Decorily

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In real time I'd award the try. The dropped ball "offence" is not C&O. The Ruck knock-on is unclear from the ref's angle. With a TMO I'd expect them to pick bothe offenses correctly so back for the knock on.

But surely the KO (ruck) advantage had been played out so not going back.
 

Arabcheif

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I thought it looked like a KO after the ball comes out of the ruck. It bounces up off the Samoan's foot then hits his hand and hots the ground before he picks it up. TBH in real time I'd have expected it to play on too. For the TMO to pick it up. It MAY have hit his knee, but it looked like his hand to me.

Assuming that it wasn't a knock on after the ruck, I felt there was no clear ground the 1st time I watched it and was more convinced after the 2nd look. Usually when the play is stopped for a non infringement, the scrum is awarded to the team that was last in possession?? That's my thinking for a scrum 5 attacking team put in.

As I've said many times, I'm not a ref and have only read through the LOTG a few times. Happy to be corrected. :)
 

Rich_NL

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First impression: knock on, red scrum 5. Watched on a small screen, and based mainly on the ball motion at the "grounding"

Edit: additionally, staying close enough to the ball to make such calls credibly is an important part of management, to me.
 
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Marc Wakeham


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Usually when the play is stopped for a non infringement, the scrum is awarded to the team that was last in possession?? That's my thinking for a scrum 5 attacking team put in.

When was play stopped for a "non infringement"?

I suggets that it was not! A try was "scored" and the ref went upstairs. Tgere were now three possible outcomes to that.

1: No knock on at either ruck orin the act of scoring = TRY Samoa.
2: knock on in the act of scoring.= Scrum 5 Spain.
3: knock on at the ruck. = Scrum back at the place of the knock on Spain.
 

Arabcheif

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Initially I wasn't convinced about the knock on in the act of scoring. I felt that it had went "back" slightly. I've watched it again and yeah it does go forward.

My question now is, IF it hadn't been KO, would it be a scrum 5 - Blue?
 

crossref


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If that was me on my own I'd call it a knock on.
I think that's the safe decision that few will argue with ..You cant give a try when everyone on the pitch saw it fumbled.

With a TMO you just go to the TMO
 

didds

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I don't think anyone would argue that that isn't a knock on really. (This forum will now prove me wrong)


Don't want to have any doubt over a knock on or not? - should have buried it. Freddie Burns moment.

didds
 

Arabcheif

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So at the point the ref blew in the vid. He was awarding the try, so IF the ball hadn't been knocked on it would've still been in play and not dead (at least that's my interpretation) as there "wasn't" a KO In-goal, I thought that play just continues until the defending team touch the ball down and then make it dead.

If they don't touch it down then play on. But the ref had stopped play when the ball was still live (yes in reality in THIS situation there was a KO so Scrum 5 5-Red). If there hadn't been a KO, am I right in saying Scrum 5 - Blue if there was no KO In-goal? Hope I'm making my question clear :)
 

crossref


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If you stop play by mistake , when no infringement has happened d. (the normal scenario is a try scored on the 5m line) you resume with a scrum ..
 

ChrisR

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When was play stopped for a "non infringement"?

I suggets that it was not! A try was "scored" and the ref went upstairs. Tgere were now three possible outcomes to that.

1: No knock on at either ruck orin the act of scoring = TRY Samoa.
2: knock on in the act of scoring.= Scrum 5 Spain.
3: knock on at the ruck. = Scrum back at the place of the knock on Spain.

There is a 4th option here: No knock-on in goal but ball not grounded for the try. Ball should still be in play but referee whistled it dead. Therefor restart Blue 5m.
 
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