Uncontested Scrum - Hands in.

PaulDG


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What do we think..

Adult 3rd XV. Uncontested scrums from the start. One team 2nd row bringing the ball back with their hands.

Penalty or ignore as not material?
 

Dickie E


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play on but tell them at next scrum not to do it
 

andyscott


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PK, same as normal scrums. It stupidity!!

Of course I would be having a chat, but it will be, do it again (as its deliberate) and you go in the bin.
 

Davet

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Pretty much immaterial, the team HAS to win the ball, there is no contest and no pushing, so they can channel it without any problems anyway - I might suggest that they should be able to get the ball back legally, and ask 'em if they didn't feel competent enough to win an uncontested scrum without using hands...

But I certainly would not YC them for doing it, I thnk that would be a rather extreme "Jobsworth" attitude, and wearing a peaked cap, and a jacket with a row of coloured pens in the breast pocket never suited me.
 

Deeps


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This is one of those 'manage it' situations. Tell them next time to play the game properly. I will usually remind the scrum half that he now has a golden opportunity to practise his 'getting in straight' technique without fear of losing the ball.

OK so there is no competition until the ball comes out but we can still practise, can't we?
 

andyscott


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if its imaterial in one uncontested scrum why not in all, then if it is imaterial why ask them to stop?
Would you allow it in every scrum?
If no, why not? Has it suddenly become material?
At what point would you penalise it?
 

OB..


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Manage it before it happens.

I recommend to all referees that if they have to go to uncontested scrums, they should stress to both teams at that time that all the normal laws will be applied except that the team throwing in MUST win the ball, and neither side may push. Otherwise, crooked feeds, dummying, illegal use of hands, breaking early etc will all be penalised as normal.

Depending on the game you may choose to be lenient the first time and merely reset the scrum.
 

andyscott


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Manage it before it happens.

I recommend to all referees that if they have to go to uncontested scrums, they should stress to both teams at that time that all the normal laws will be applied except that the team throwing in MUST win the ball, and neither side may push. Otherwise, crooked feeds, dummying, illegal use of hands, breaking early etc will all be penalised as normal.

Depending on the game you may choose to be lenient the first time and merely reset the scrum.

OB totally agree,

I assumed that the OP had done all of this.
I do this every time it needs to go uncontested, just before there is about 6 people ask, can the number 8 pick up :rolleyes:
 
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PaulDG


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Manage it before it happens.

I recommend to all referees that if they have to go to uncontested scrums, they should stress to both teams at that time that all the normal laws will be applied except that the team throwing in MUST win the ball, and neither side may push. Otherwise, crooked feeds, dummying, illegal use of hands, breaking early etc will all be penalised as normal.

Depending on the game you may choose to be lenient the first time and merely reset the scrum.

This was one of my very early games and I actually did do as OB suggests here.

I penalised the 2nd and third hands in. Same player every time. Then it stopped.

At the time, I was quite happy with my decisions - frankly still am. I shared on here to get others' views of this now that we're supposed to be much more into "materiality".
 

Ciaran Trainor


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I would tell them to play it properly next time or I wil penalise.
Then they know where you stand.
Just as I would insist that they all bind with a full arm though obviously if I was reffing a test match I would completely ignore the fact that they have to pack down at all!!!!:Nerv:
 

beckett50


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This was one of my very early games and I actually did do as OB suggests here.

I penalised the 2nd and third hands in. Same player every time. Then it stopped.

At the time, I was quite happy with my decisions - frankly still am. I shared on here to get others' views of this now that we're supposed to be much more into "materiality".

I think at the level described I would agree with your actions.
 

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Slightly off topic but; Uncontested scrum to white, White hooker, in attempting to hook the ball, clearly mistimes the hook and kicks the ball through the red scrum.

Play on or reset?
 

OB..


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I've seen it happen. The referee was prepared to let play go on, but the players stopped in confusion and he was persuaded to reset the scrum.
 

Dickie E


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Just as I would insist that they all bind with a full arm though obviously if I was reffing a test match I would completely ignore the fact that they have to pack down at all!!!!:Nerv:

CT, you're an Englishman so it'd be nigh on impossible for you to be appointed to ref a match where uncontested scrums were called for :p
 

FlipFlop


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CT, you're an Englishman so it'd be nigh on impossible for you to be appointed to ref a match where uncontested scrums were called for :p

It's only when we have some Aussie who thinks he's the next Al Baxter over on holiday that there are problems in the Scrums in Europe! :D
 

Ciaran Trainor


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Very funny Dickie.:clap:
Me and Friends are provisionally pencilling in the lions in 4 years time in Oz.
(just doing the groundwork with the wives now)
It will be interesting to see who goes uncontested first and don't forget it was the soft Welsh who went off injured not the English!!
 

Ian_Cook


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the team throwing in MUST win the ball


I now always find this bit amusing after watching a local grass roots match here a while back.

The scrums were uncontested because White had only one player with FR experience. while Blue had a fully certified FR.

In the first scrum of the game, the White hooker, who had obviously never played there before, mistimed his strike and kicked the ball through into the Blue scrum, which of course, led to a reset. He did this a further four times on the White throw-in. Everyone at the ground in the vicinity was having a quiet (and some not so quiet) laugh to themselves.

In the end, the referee told the White SH to "just throw the bloody thing straight in the second row" :clap:

BCM would not be amused. :=
 

OB..


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Why didn't Blue simply kick it back to White?! (As happened locally.)
 

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Surely the point of U/C is to take the contest out. It you have the ball and you give it away. More fool you!
 
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