Unsuccessful turnover

Camquin

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In the OP we never had a ruck and we never had a maul.

We had a tackle that was completed and a second attempted "tackle" that was not completed as the ball carrier stayed on their feet.

Why blow up at all, it does not sound dangerous, why not let it develop into something.
One side might strip the ball, the blue player might complete the tackle, a red player may join to make it a maul.
 

Browner

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This a case where the quick play by Red 7 to tackle, get up and take the ball has been negated by the quick play of the Blue players. Both sides did well and Red will be rewarded with the put-in at the subsequent scrum (if I understand the OP correctly). That's rugby.

No, it's not rugby, it's wrong Law application...................ps Do you referee as well as coach Youth?
 

Taff


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Red 7, legally picks up ball, he is still in the middle of what was a ruck, in contact with opposition and at least one team mate who is bound onto him. We now have a maul. Ball wrapped up by blue,eventually becomes a pile up, therefore unsuccesful end to maul.Scrum blue, correct ?
Post 10. Suggests bound team mate.
So it does tick all the boxes for a maul. Ie Ball carrier, bound on by at least 1 opponent and 1 team mate - and all on their feet.

In the OP we never had a ruck and we never had a maul.
I accept it wasn't clear from the OP, but Wrightys later post 10 describes a maul - more importantly a Red maul, which becomes important if that maul becomes unplayable.

... We had a tackle that was completed and a second attempted "tackle" that was not completed as the ball carrier stayed on their feet. Why blow up at all, it does not sound dangerous, why not let it develop into something. One side might strip the ball, the blue player might complete the tackle, a red player may join to make it a maul.
If there was no bound on team mate I'd agree with you, but from post 10 it looks like it is a maul (the bound on team mate changes everything) and once you've mentally classed it a maul, then we have to referee it as a maul surely?
 
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Red 7, legally picks up ball, he is still in the middle of what was a ruck, in contact with opposition and at least one team mate who is bound onto him.We now have a maul.Ball wrapped up by blue,eventually becomes a pile up, therefore unsuccesful end to maul.Scrum blue, correct ?

It would be helpful if the scenario did not change. Here it is a maul so turnover ball. Scrum Blue put in.
 

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I accept it wasn't clear from the OP, but Wrightys later post 10 describes a maul - more importantly a Red maul, which becomes important if that maul becomes unplayable.


Which is why it helps to give the correct information so an accurate answer can be given. Th OP was very clear and a totally different scenario (and answer).
I am loath to answer supporters question and to "was last weeks ref wrong?", because they "accidentally" leave out the crucial bit of information.
 
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Camquin

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By the way if you are bound into a ruck, how do you legally pick up the ball?
I thought this was a penalty offense.

Camquin
 

RobLev

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By the way if you are bound into a ruck, how do you legally pick up the ball?
I thought this was a penalty offense.

Camquin

Law 16.4(b):

Players must not handle the ball in a ruck except after a tackle if they are on their feet and have their hands on the ball before the ruck is formed.
 

Taff


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By the way if you are bound into a ruck, how do you legally pick up the ball? I thought this was a penalty offense.
Handling in the ruck is indeed a PK offence, but don't forget that a "Jackler" can keep his hands on the ball as long as he got his mits on it before the ruck was formed.

Once the ruck has formed, it's too late to grab it.
 

Ian_Cook


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Red 7, legally picks up ball, he is still in the middle of what was a ruck, in contact with opposition and at least one team mate who is bound onto him.We now have a maul.Ball wrapped up by blue,eventually becomes a pile up, therefore unsuccesful end to maul.Scrum blue, correct ?

Yes. Red 7 is in possession when the maul forms so taken in by red > unplayable > unsuccessful end to the maul > scrum with Blue to feed.

By the way if you are bound into a ruck, how do you legally pick up the ball?
I thought this was a penalty offense.

Presumably Red 7 already had his hands on the ball before the ruck was formed so Law 16.4 (b) would apply

[laws]Law 16.4 (b) Players must not handle the ball in a ruck except after a tackle if they are on their feet and
have their hands on the ball before the ruck is formed.
[/LAWS]

so he is perfectly entitled to pick the ball up.
 

ChrisR

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No, it's not rugby, it's wrong Law application...................ps Do you referee as well as coach Youth?

Browner, when the OP uses the term "pile up" I think players on the ground, not on their feet. How do you rule with an unplayable ball under players on the ground?
 
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