Unusual Incidents

didds

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I don't think GJ giving a drop out is proof that it's right - still less players and commentators not complaining.

particularly when generally speaking commentators and players are roundly criticised here for not knowing the laws anyway.
didds
 

crossref


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no it's not proof, how could anything be proof?

but it was great to see it, and in that instance does anyone really think a 5m scrum would have been a better decision?
 

winchesterref


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no it's not proof, how could anything be proof?

but it was great to see it, and in that instance does anyone really think a 5m scrum would have been a better decision?

I think he's given it as French hand knocking the ball dead.
 

crossref


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I think he's given it as French hand knocking the ball dead.

It doesn't make any difference which hand touched it last. The argument I have been fighting for 100 posts says that if at any point in the action gold knocked it forward (which they did) then it should be a scrum.
 

The Fat


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Great to see my reading of the Laws confirmed in an international game at the weekend.

It's exactly the scenario we have been discussing (the Gods of Rugby must have read this board, and arranged for it to happen!)
- gold (attacking) kick the ball into the in goal, and chase
- inside the in-goal, gold knock on, ball also hits white, and ball ends up over the DBL

restart - quite correctly IMO = 22m drop out.


here it is in real time (@1:42 game clock)

and in slow motion

I don't see any players, commentators complaining, nor any shots of an angry Cheika gesticulting at his laptop - this is because when you see it, it feels like (and indeed is) the right decision

77 minute mark of Wales v Japan
 

The Fat


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What happens? :)

Wales attacker knocks-on in in-goal following a kick ahead by Wales. Japan don't get the ball back into the FoP.
5m scrum to Japan.

I've looked at the Wallabies v France one from both angles and I still can't tell if gold definitely gets a touch. GJ says it's a 22 but doesn't elaborate so we don't know how he has seen it.
He either thinks that gold has kicked and that white get the touch on the ball OR
Gold has kicked it dead OR
Gold has knocked it on and he just F@%&$ up the decision.

As I said earlier, some of his non-decisions in this game make life hard for other referees. When I get time to watch a full replay, I'll list them for you.
 

The Fat


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I think he's given it as French hand knocking the ball dead.

Possibly.
I would love to know what he got from his AR on this one.
Would have been a good one to get the TMO to look at to see how the ball was made dead.
(a) Dead from kick = 22 DO
(b) off Gold hand = 5m scrum to White
(c) off White hand = consider PK to Gold for deliberate knock/throw into touch/TiG

I'm thinking he got something clear from his AR
 

DocY


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Wales attacker knocks-on in in-goal following a kick ahead by Wales. Japan don't get the ball back into the FoP.
5m scrum to Japan.

Cuthbert, right? IIRC he knocked the ball on before he got to the goal line, then again in in goal.
 

crossref


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Possibly.
I would love to know what he got from his AR on this one.
Would have been a good one to get the TMO to look at to see how the ball was made dead.
(a) Dead from kick = 22 DO
(b) off Gold hand = 5m scrum to White
(c) off White hand = consider PK to Gold for deliberate knock/throw into touch/TiG

I'm thinking he got something clear from his AR

of course it doesn't matter whose hand it came off.
- If you are of the school that a gold knock would make it a scrum, then it doesn't matter if white touched it before or after or not at all. What would matter to you is only whether gold touched it. If you are of that school you'd have to go to the TMO to tell you the restart.

(I am discounting the PK for a deliberate knock into touch- I don;t believe anyone would serously argue for a PK in that particular incident, which was a simple scramble for the ball
 
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OB..


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Since we don't know what the referee's rationale was, the incident gets us precisely nowhere. What we need is the post-match assessment.
 

crossref


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Since we don't know what the referee's rationale was, the incident gets us precisely nowhere. What we need is the post-match assessment.

I think the fact that he didn't call for the TMO to tell him the correct restart is significant : he evidently didn't think it was important to see if gold had touched the ball.
 

DocY


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I think the fact that he didn't call for the TMO to tell him the correct restart is significant : he evidently didn't think it was important to see if gold had touched the ball.

I didn't see the incident in, but was there any question of the ball being grounded? If not, it's not TMO-able, is it?
 

OB..


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I think the fact that he didn't call for the TMO to tell him the correct restart is significant : he evidently didn't think it was important to see if gold had touched the ball.
Or perhaps he was clear that Gold had not touched the ball? Let's stop guessing.
 

DocY


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Quite a funny one on Saturday.

I awarded a penalty try at a 5m scrum and (following the advice on the other thread) didn't run straight to the posts. I was glad I didn't as I got to see the the defending hooker and tight head break out into a scuffle - yes, two players on the same team - and the hooker taking a swing (which missed).

They were being hammered and there was only about 5 minutes left, so I just had a chat with them both and carried on with the game, but had it been a different situation, we'd have been looking at a penalty and possible YC.

It made me chuckle, though - perhaps 10.4 should replace "an opponent" with "a player"!
 

DocY


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Another interesting one:

Cross field kick landing close to the touch line. The away team winger running back, goes to gather, knocks the ball backwards and in field, then falls on his face.
The home winger gathers and is well clear when the TJ (who, *cough* coincidentally I'm sure, was provided by the away team) puts his flag up.

Nothing too unusual, but I was sure the ball wasn't in touch. I had a talk with the TJ and he said he'd flagged because the winger (who didn't gather the ball) had his foot on the touch line.

The eventual outcome was that I awarded the try, explaining to the captains that the TJ had 'made a mistake', which felt like a fair outcome to me and I mentioned the incident in my match report.

What are anyone's thoughts about how I handled this? I thought it was fair, but I'm not sure where I stand in law.
 

TheBFG


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you are well within your rights to overrule a TJ :clap:
 

Decorily

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........but I was sure the ball wasn't in touch.......

That's more than enough to overrule the TJ.......even if he is an officially appointed one!
 

crossref


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Normally it's not practical to play on when a TJ puts his flag up, because it's totally reasonable for the players to stop when the flag goes up.

In this case, if the flag didn't affect the play then I guess you were correct
 
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