Wales hands in the scrum

RobLev

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But if the number 8 picks up the ball and moves away from the offside scrum half is it material? -I appreciate you could argue cutting down options but they are already within touching distance.

Also agreed - in fact, I think that by going so far offside on the "wrong" side of the scrum W9's put himself completely out of the game. They were never going his side, so there were no options to cut down.

So I'd say that while W9 commits the first offence, it isn't material; whereas R8's offence was highly material.
 

RobLev

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You may well be right, but at normal speed it is not C&O.

IMHO it should have been to JG - he's looking at the ball and W9's clearly to the right of his eye line.

However surely the first offence(s) come from the Wales scrum - both locks and the THP lose their binding in the initial heave by England.

As so often, the referee can choose from a number of offences. Youngs being offside would surely not be considered material in the circumstances.

It certainly doesn't excuse Faletau, and his action was highly material!

Agreed.
 

FlipFlop


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The #8 would normally unbind with his back shielding the ball until he can pick it up. Obviously we must allow that, provided he does not delay unduly.

In this case, of course, Faletau unbound before the ball was at his feet, so the question does not arise.

Not only that - there was clearly a delay between the unbinding and the picking up the ball, as he went mining into the tunnel!
 

didds

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meanwhile why was W9 even on the openside of the scrum when the huge blindside was "on"... surely he would have been better off round in line with the hindmost feet on the blindside as an extra defender once the ball was put in.

didds
 

ChrisR

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Browner, thanx for the clip.

Just getting to this as I can't process video via dial-up.

Agree with those that see Red 8 with hands in. Also agree with Ian that if hind foot unbinds with ball at feet then scrum is over. This is not a universally held opinion and I don't want to hijack the thread as this has been a subject in the past.

To be fair to JG he is probably not looking at/seeing the ball (he's waiting for the front row to go down!) so the 'hands in' is not C & O to him. But a check with the TMO could bring it back.

W 9 off-sides? Yes, but marginal and not material.

Red locks unbinding? Not a callable offence.

W 6 unbinding? Yes, and C & O to the TA and very material.

From a coaching perspective the bad guy here is W 11. He tackles down and lets Red 9 scamper in
 

irishref


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So much we could penalise at this scrum, but would Joe Public then be calling on the ref to not be strict since scrums are messy enough?

#1 - Wales have given up pushing straight and start to wheel. Take Browner's clip and have a look at what the Welsh #5 and #6 do. Not only forcing the scrum to disintegrate but forming a very effective block for the English blindside flanker. But then again, Haskell missed the tackle by going too high.



#2 - the Faletau digging. He's not even the hindmost man, there are 2 behind him thanks to Englands effective (and legal) scrummaging.

#3 - the Faletau digging. He's got a knee on the ground, ergo not on his feet. Check out 20.9(a)

"A player must not intentionally fall or kneel in a scrum"

#4 - the Faletau digging. The ball is nowhere near his feet, he really has to grab from a distance and, as others have pointed out, had to drop his left hand bind in order to be able to reach in far enough.

#5 - Ben Youngs. Yes, starts from an offside position and carries towards the ball, but doesn't get anywhere near touching anyone with the ball. Material?

My conclusion: the lack of penalising Wales for any of 4 PK infringements was very material: Wales got 7 points. England's only infringement wasn't material.

But there was some awful tackling attempts between Faletau finally getting the ball and the try being scored.
 
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ChrisR

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Irishref, agree with your post except this:

England's only infringement wasn't material.


Only not material because of pathetic tackling.

As to the wheel ..... Don't get me started .....

Nothing in that wheel violated law! Tho Red 4 should have been keeping pace with Red 5. The purpose of the wheel is to put Red 8 further away from W 6.

So, let England drive it around. But Wales just can't afford to go backwards like a French tank.
 
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