[Law] Wales Italy 6N 2020; was Biggar offside?

[ReaF]

First post; go gently!

Wales v. Italy at weekend. 58 mins. Welsh attacking, Biggar got ahead of ball carrier who was tackled to ground. Tipuric cleared out the Italian tackler as he was getting back to feet. The ball was inside the hindmost foot (therefore within tackle area) but Biggar who was ahead came back and played it while coming back. I would have thought Tipurics clear out was either a ruck and created an offside line and if it wasn't a ruck, then it was a tackle and you have to approach from your own goal line. Play on and Tompkins scored directly from Biggars pass.

So, should Biggar have been penalised? (If so, the fact that he wasn't is confusing, particularly given that it led to try on this occasion). Is 'Play on' justified here and if so on what grounds?

 

[didds]

Good spot.

Id say no ruck, so tackle not through the gate. There is contact "over the ball" bit at least one player (blue) is not on his feet - he is the tackler that has "inadevertently" fallen Wales side and is just earth shifted out of the way by red.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sDs6i5MzNco&feature=youtu.be&t=105

didds

 

[Decorily]

Hadn't seen this before...but certainly looks like he could have/should have been penalised on any one of 2 or 3 grounds.

 

[Phil E]

Oh dear.

 

[Decorily]

Oh dear.

OK. ...I'll bite!
Elaborate.

 

[Phil E]

OK. ...I'll bite!
Elaborate.

Just "oh dear"...ref missed it.

Sorry, wasn't meant to be cryptic.

 

[irishref]

Peep, PK to blue.

"Dan, you must respect the gate at the breakdown, as we discussed in the pre-match briefing"

 

[Decorily]

Just "oh dear"...ref missed it.

Sorry, wasn't meant to be cryptic.

......?

 

[Decorily]

Or did the ref just make a mistake

I honestly couldn't see myself missing that(and I do make some stupid mistakes ) ....it's almost like something I would instinctively blow and then second guess my decision!

 

[Ciaran Trainor]

Why didn't the TMO call it? He clearly picked up the slightest of knock ons in the next clip!

 

[Balones]

Would you penalise the S/H if he went round into the position that Biggar was to dive pass the ball?

 

[Decorily]

Would you penalise the S/H if he went round into the position that Biggar was to dive pass the ball?

Personally no.....
Presumably the SH, in your scenario, came from an onside position and just positioned himself for the pass.
I'd apply the same logic (ish) as at the scrum.

 

[Not Kurt Weaver]

"Dan, you must respect the gate at the breakdown, as we discussed in the pre-match briefing"

I think he paid very close attention to PMB and may have been the only player to do so.

I've watched this video countless times with stops and starts, PLAY ON for me.

 

[Zebra1922]

I think he paid very close attention to PMB and may have been the only player to do so.

I've watched this video countless times with stops and starts, PLAY ON for me.

Why? Looks like a ruck or TWOL, he did not get onside prior to playing the ball. What do you see that I do not?

 

[Not Kurt Weaver]

Why? Looks like a ruck or TWOL, he did not get onside prior to playing the ball. What do you see that I do not?

I see a extremely brief modern era ruck, ball is out of ruck ((red tackled player (who played ball post release) is not a ruck participant), offside line is hindmost foot of sole red rucking player, retiring Mr. Biggar gains onside with one foot on his teams side of offside line.

Normally, I would have said MrBiggar would need two feet behind offside line, but i can no longer find that necessity in modern, current lawbook.

Direction of entry post ruck is not a factor. It is a factor for entry to a tackle, or joining a ruck. Neither of these apply to a retiring Mr Biggar.

Please feel free to tell how FU I am, but I decided to defend the referee

 

[Zebra1922]

Not sure what FU means, and I understand your argument I just disagree. I don't see the ball being out and I don't see Biggar ever getting back onside, but happy to agree to disagree. I like your well thought out rationale.

 

[Phil E]

Not through the gate and never onside.

 

[Wedgie]

Not through the gate and never onside.

I saw in real time and went back and looked on slomo 'cos it looked wrong at the time. But, referring to the words of my pre-match brief ("... any other player joins the breakdown from their own goal line...") I think led me astray to thinking 'Play on' at the time (Oh, and probably those daffodil-tinted glasses ;-).


But my pre-match brief phrase and "through the gate" refer to *joining* the breakdown which, I don't think Biggar did. So revising 14.10 "Offside lines are created at a tackle..." and linking this with 10.1.a "Player offside...must not interfere with play include ...playing the ball" - which admittedly refers to open play and may not be appropriate - I think it now should have been a penalty.

 

[Balones]

Unfortunately my contact in the RFU laws department has confirmed that he should have been penalised.��

 

[Not Kurt Weaver]

Unfortunately my contact in the RFU laws department has confirmed that he should have been penalised.��

My contact in the WRU confirmed he was not penalized.