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Was Lewis Robbed?

Dave Elliott

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So, a big talking point for thoses F1 fans. Was it a great win for Max today, or was there a little bit of skullduggery from the red bull/FIA team to get Max across the line first?

Interesting conversation to be had i think.
 

Dixie


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Hard to say Lewis was robbed. Mercedes have been playing catch-up all season with Red Bull setting the pace. Yes, LH entered the decider on a 3-race roll but MV would have won on count back if neither finished. So on to the race...

Absent the crash with 5 laps to go, the race is Lewis's. Once it happened, the safety car inevitably bunched the field - nothing unusual there. With Max already on fresher rubber, that gives him the advantage. LH could only reasonably win if the race ended under the safety car - which is an unsatisfactory end to any race, let alone a championship. With MV pitting yet again for perfect rubber, if the race has a final lap he wins. So the question is whether race director Masi was permitted to bend rules to avoid ending in a safety car procession. There is at least an argument that he was, but I suspect the CAS will decide that. Mercedes will look bad if they make that appeal to the CAS though - I can't see anyone unravelling the result to rescind Max's award of the championship.
 

Dave Elliott

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yes i cannot see it being rescinded now, i think merc were stuck either way, if they brough lewis in fro fresh, and it DID finish on the safety car, max wins, leave him out, as they did, and he has inferior rubber to compete with Max. I must say max drove excellently in those last few turns to get ahead and win.
 

Glyndwr

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After the farce at Spa, F1 fell off my radar.

I see they had another safety car disaster yesterday.
 

Fatboy_Ginge


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The trouble is that Michael Masi intially said no unlapping, and then changed it to only the cars between LH & MV just before the safety car comes in. Therein lies the problem(s). The confusing messages AND the fact that only the cars between the leading 2 were instructed to do so.

Rule 39.12 - "If the clerk of the course considers it safe to do so, and the message "LAPPED CARS MAY NOW
OVERTAKE" has been sent to all Competitors via the official messaging system, any cars
that have been lapped by the leader will be required to pass the cars on the lead lap and the
safety car."

No where does it say selected cars, so why were the cars behind MV not told to unlap?

"This will only apply to cars that were lapped at the time they crossed the Line at the end of the lap during which they crossed the first Safety Car line for the second time after the safety car was deployed." i.e those behind MV should have been instructed to pass as well.

Having overtaken the cars on the lead lap and the safety car these cars should then proceed around the track at an appropriate speed, without overtaking, and make every effort to take up position at the back of the line of cars behind the safety car. Whilst they are overtaking, and in
order to ensure this may be carried out safely, the cars on the lead lap must always stay on the racing line unless deviating from it is unavoidable.

"Unless the clerk of the course considers the presence of the safety car is still necessary, once the last lapped car has passed the leader the
safety car will return to the pits at the end of the following lap. If the clerk of the course considers track conditions are unsuitable for overtaking the message "OVERTAKING WILL NOT BE PERMITTED" will be sent to all teams Competitors via the official messaging system."

The problem this brings is of course that the race would have finished under the safety car and there's no way that the FIA wanted that to happen... so they deliberately ignored their own rules which leads to MAHOOSIVE precedents for next season unless there's a major change to the rules in the meantime.
 

OB..


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The trouble is that Michael Masi intially said no unlapping, and then changed it to only the cars between LH & MV just before the safety car comes in. Therein lies the problem(s). The confusing messages AND the fact that only the cars between the leading 2 were instructed to do so.

Rule 39.12 - "If the clerk of the course considers it safe to do so, and the message "LAPPED CARS MAY NOW
OVERTAKE" has been sent to all Competitors via the official messaging system, any cars
that have been lapped by the leader will be required to pass the cars on the lead lap and the
safety car."

No where does it say selected cars, so why were the cars behind MV not told to unlap?

"This will only apply to cars that were lapped at the time they crossed the Line at the end of the lap during which they crossed the first Safety Car line for the second time after the safety car was deployed." i.e those behind MV should have been instructed to pass as well.

Having overtaken the cars on the lead lap and the safety car these cars should then proceed around the track at an appropriate speed, without overtaking, and make every effort to take up position at the back of the line of cars behind the safety car. Whilst they are overtaking, and in
order to ensure this may be carried out safely, the cars on the lead lap must always stay on the racing line unless deviating from it is unavoidable.

"Unless the clerk of the course considers the presence of the safety car is still necessary, once the last lapped car has passed the leader the
safety car will return to the pits at the end of the following lap. If the clerk of the course considers track conditions are unsuitable for overtaking the message "OVERTAKING WILL NOT BE PERMITTED" will be sent to all teams Competitors via the official messaging system."

The problem this brings is of course that the race would have finished under the safety car and there's no way that the FIA wanted that to happen... so they deliberately ignored their own rules which leads to MAHOOSIVE precedents for next season unless there's a major change to the rules in the meantime.
My view is that Masi did not want the ending of the race to be a damp squib, so he "orchestrated" a semi-artificial situation. Hard to justify under the regulations. How on earth did he justify allow only some cars to unlap themselves!!
 

Fatboy_Ginge


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My view is that Masi did not want the ending of the race to be a damp squib, so he "orchestrated" a semi-artificial situation. Hard to justify under the regulations. How on earth did he justify allow only some cars to unlap themselves!!

Exactly this... Either you allow ALL the lapped cars to unlap themselves or NONE of them... which was the original call; until Whinger Spice seemed to get in on the act.
 

beckett50


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I found it ironic that not 7 days previously Christian Horner accused the stewards and Masi of making things up "on the fly", and yet he is happy to accept the decision "on the fly" to permit some cars to unlap themselves and for the safety car to come in before they have joined the back of the snake?!
 

Lee Lifeson-Peart


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I lost interest when they took two wheels off the Tyrrell.
 

Dixpat

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The Race Director justifies his decision pointing to 15.3 (e) of the Sporting Regulations & in so doing makes redundant anything in the regs re the safety car process.

15.3 The clerk of the course shall work in permanent consultation with the Race Director. The Race Director shall have overriding authority in the following matters and the clerk of the course may give orders in respect of them only with his express agreement:
a) The control of practice, sprint qualifying session and the race, adherence to the timetable and, if he deems it necessary, the making of any proposal to the stewards to modify the timetable in accordance with the Code or Sporting Regulations.
b) The stopping of any car in accordance with the Code or Sporting Regulations.
c) The stopping of practice, suspension of a sprint qualifying session or suspension of the race in accordance with the Sporting Regulations if he deems it unsafe to continue and ensuring that the correct restart procedure is carried out.
d) The starting procedure.
e) The use of the safety car.


It was a farce and is worthy of appealing.

I liken it to a rugby game where the ref awards a penalty in agame which if kciekd will leave the die stil losing by 1 point but on the fly says to both teams "f... that, this kick is worth 5 points" and justifes that by relying on hie has total autohority over everything that happens in the game
 

Dixpat

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The Race Director justifies his decision pointing to 15.3 (e) of the Sporting Regulations & in so doing makes redundant anything in the regs re the safety car process.

15.3 The clerk of the course shall work in permanent consultation with the Race Director. The Race Director shall have overriding authority in the following matters and the clerk of the course may give orders in respect of them only with his express agreement:
a) The control of practice, sprint qualifying session and the race, adherence to the timetable and, if he deems it necessary, the making of any proposal to the stewards to modify the timetable in accordance with the Code or Sporting Regulations.
b) The stopping of any car in accordance with the Code or Sporting Regulations.
c) The stopping of practice, suspension of a sprint qualifying session or suspension of the race in accordance with the Sporting Regulations if he deems it unsafe to continue and ensuring that the correct restart procedure is carried out.
d) The starting procedure.
e) The use of the safety car.


It was a farce and is worthy of appealing.

I liken it to a rugby game where the ref awards a penalty in a game which if kicked will leave the side still losing by 1 point but on the fly says to both teams "f... that, this kick is worth 5 points" and justifes that by relying on he has total authority over everything that happens in the game
Correcting misspells
 
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