[Tackle] What do you give?

TheBFG


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I've noticed this a lot in recent weeks, not sure why it's becoming more common?

Ball carrier is tackled, tackler and ball carrier on the floor. Now either the ball carrier or the first arriving support player (ball carriers side) holds the tackler in?

Now of course i know they're trying to win a pen for the tackler not rolling away, but what do you give in this situation?

I've had 3 instances in my last 2 games, so be interested to see how others deal with this.....:chin:
 

Shelflife


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For me its cynical play and id start by trying to manage it, failing that id penalise them for it.

For the ball carrier

7.a not making the ball available
7.b not moving away
7.c preventing the opposition from playing the ball

Arriving player

8.d tackling the an opponent on the ground

If it was a smart play or ingenious I might let it go . But this is negative and cynical.

First time scrum to attacking team for an unplayable ball with a stern talking to, second time its a pen against them.
 

Flish


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If I see it I call it, loud, so far after a couple of gesticulations about not getting the pen, and a quick word with the captain it's dried up. Suspect that's luck more than my management technique though.
 

Phil E


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I wouldn't give anything.
Manage it.
 

Rich_NL

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As long as you say they play on and it's not building up to a flashpoint, they're only spoiling their own fast ball.
 

Zebra1922


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I think this is very dependent on how the tackler ends on the wrong side and how quickly they try to extricate themselves from the position. If they are being clearly held in by the BC or arriving players, play on (and I will communicate this to all and tell the tackler he is OK to stay, by moving he could the inadvertently interfere).

Frequently they may be held in but only as a function of them deliberately putting themselves on the wrong side and waiting a fraction too long before trying to roll away. In those instances I view this as the tackler slowing the ball so even if they are now being held in, they have already committed the fist offence by not rolling away in the first instance.

Very common occurrence in games and like everything you just have to manage it. After lots of feedback from ref coaches I'm finally listening, the key is being at the tackle area quickly and approaching from the right angle so you see all of this it happens.
 

TheBFG


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Interesting :chin:

From the 3 instances I've identified in last couple of matches. In all cases I've blown quickly and given an attacking scrum. I will not allow them to "buy a penalty" and tell them so. I don't want other players taking the law into their own hands :wink:

In the first game it happened once and it was by an experienced player (ex Army 1st XV), he just smiled and after the game said i was the first ref that didn't give a pen.

Second game it happened twice, once by each team. At a break in play i called the captains in and told them to tell their players to stop it as next time i would pen the player doing the holding.

I see this week in week out on TV and every time the refs give pens for not rolling away when it's clear that players are being held in there?
 

Phil E


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I see this week in week out on TV and every time the refs give pens for not rolling away when it's clear that players are being held in there?

There is an argument to say the tackler shouldn't be there in the first place at that level, as the speed of play means just being on the wrong side slows the ball down, even if they get out of there as fast as they can.

Do you think at TV level they end up on the wrong side by accident?
 

TheBFG


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There is an argument to say the tackler shouldn't be there in the first place at that level, as the speed of play means just being on the wrong side slows the ball down, even if they get out of there as fast as they can.

Do you think at TV level they end up on the wrong side by accident?

Sometimes, but when you see players blatantly holding them in isn't very difficult to tell. Maybe at our level they're just shit at stopping them from rolling away?
 

Phil E


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Sometimes, but when you see players blatantly holding them in isn't very difficult to tell. Maybe at our level they're just shit at stopping them from rolling away?

I have hears top referees say "you shouldn't have been on that side in the first place, if you are you take your chances".
 

TheBFG


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I have hears top referees say "you shouldn't have been on that side in the first place, if you are you take your chances".

You've heard me ref :wink:

But they still allow players to hold them in there
 

Ciaran Trainor


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I see it at my level 7 and 8 with some players who "know what they are doing".
I usually manage it by saying he can't get away, you've trapped him in, scrum attack.
As others have said they are slowing their own ball down by trying to buy a penalty.
I'm not buying it, they soon stop it!
 

Arabcheif

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To counter the speed of not rolling away. I've mentioned this (on the forum) during the Autumn tests and I've noticed it accurring during the 6 Nations. BC carriers ball into tackler, tackler quickly releases and rolls away. Tackled play just gets up.... No ball release, just gets up as if he's not held.

What if the tackler just wants to be sure the tackle has completed??
 

Marc Wakeham


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I have hears top referees say "you shouldn't have been on that side in the first place, if you are you take your chances".

It's a bit of a cop out though. It is not allways the case that the player can avoid landing there. As referees we should referee facts and not desired outcomes.

Today scotland repeted ly drove up the side of rucks and fell on the wrong side and got away with slowing ball down. It was blatent and a blight on the game.

If referees at the top can't see it then they are not going to be able to say the the tackler gid nor get there by intent,
 

Zebra1922


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To counter the speed of not rolling away. I've mentioned this (on the forum) during the Autumn tests and I've noticed it accurring during the 6 Nations. BC carriers ball into tackler, tackler quickly releases and rolls away. Tackled play just gets up.... No ball release, just gets up as if he's not held.

What if the tackler just wants to be sure the tackle has completed??

I think in many cases this is being poorly refereed, if the tackler is still in contact with the tackled player when this player makes contact with the ground (brought to ground) in my book they must release the ball. Interestingly a penalty was given for this in the Italy - Ireland game today (or it might have been but for an earlier advantage).

The tackler must release first, so you just have to referee this to the laws. We can't allow tacklers to keep hold of tackled players 'just in case' if they also prevent quick ball, but we must also be strong on tackled players who ignore part 2 and do not themselves release the ball.
 

didds

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I have noticed that increasingly, this sorry of tackle (quick release and up by tackler) is followed by the BC releasing the ball to the ground and getting up and then reclaiming it. I'm not saying it always happens this way!
 

OB..


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The tackler must release first
The law merely says that both must act immediately. In midfield it makes rugby sense for referees to require the tackler to act first, but within reach of the goal line it doesn't.
 
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