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[Maul] what is the game status now

Ball dropped/placed to ground [without knock-on] in a Maul - game Status?

  • Unplayable Maul - scrum needed?

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • Open play - freedom to go to ground to gather the ball

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • Ruck - ball on ground & players over the ball

    Votes: 25 96.2%
  • any Other ? ie tackle / lineout / kickoff

    Votes: 1 3.8%
  • Unplayable open play - scrum needed.

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • Unplayable ruck - scrum needed.

    Votes: 0 0.0%

  • Total voters
    26
  • Poll closed .

VM75

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Scenario:

A Maul forms in the field of play , [and for the purpose of discussion involves 4 players from each team]

Without there being any evidence of a knock-on the ball is dropped to the ground [or is placed there by a player ] and remains under the feet of the players who had been participating in the maul.

The original ball carrier has remained on his feet as have all other maul participants.


Law 16 says 'A Maul Ends and play continues when - the ball is on the ground.

so, what is the state of the game now ?
 

crossref


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well - you can't say for certain without seeing the incident...
 

ChrisR

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well - you can't say for certain without seeing the incident...

CR, that has never prevented you from offering a definitive opinion!
 

ChuckieB

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Where's the let it breath option? A dynamic situation doesn't allow for a snapshot to be taken.
 

Taff


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Where's the let it breath option? A dynamic situation doesn't allow for a snapshot to be taken.
I can see the logic of "letting it breath" if a BC is held and it leads to a Maul, but I can't see the benefit of letting a Maul "breath" when it has clearly turned into a Ruck. Ie 2 opposing players in physical contact over the ball which is on the ground.

Why do we seem to have a problem with Rucks? I don't get it.
 
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VM75

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Where's the let it breath option? A dynamic situation doesn't allow for a snapshot to be taken.

Very interesting Chuckie, but without a current status you can't know what to decide if lets say ;

a] one of the participants of the 'ended maul' now reaches down & palms it back towards his 9
b] one of the participants of the 'ended maul' now drops down onto the ball to 'win it' for his team
c] someone not within the 'ended maul' [9?] dives in & gathers it [brave fool he may be !]
d] one of the participants of the 'ended maul' now boots it forward towards opposition 9

the decision you then give would be governed by the 'status' of play that you are now watching, ie if you consider it Open play then all a,b,c,& d are lawful, on the contrary, if its considered a Ruck then none of them are.

So, again chuckie - what status will you be giving this 'ended maul' before one of those things happen , & would you verbalise the same ... "Maul over - Open play" / "Ruck - no hands" / or simply say nothing .... to help the players know what status you are now refereeing ?
 

Pegleg

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well - you can't say for certain without seeing the incident...

Yet earlier you categorically stated "lt becomes a ruck". Etc. Make up your mind.
 

crossref


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Yet earlier you categorically stated "lt becomes a ruck". Etc. Make up your mind.

I hadn't read the poll !

From the text in the OP the answer is that it's a ruck

But then the poll has the possibility of an unplayable ruck .. to determine whether the ruck is playable or not you would have to see it.
 

Marc Wakeham

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It metions other stuff to. You just seem to want a fight.
 

didds

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Fight! Fight! Fight! Fight! Fight! Fight! Fight! Fight! Fight! Fight! Fight! Fight! Fight! Fight! Fight! Fight! Fight!
 

crossref


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It metions other stuff to. You just seem to want a fight.

Hello, its you, again, rushing in from a distance to intervene ! :)

Let me explain more carefully . ..

From the description in the OP alone my view is categorical .. it's a ruck . This seems to be a view shared by almost everyone

But the poll asks me to choose between a playable ruck, and an unplayable ruck .. but there is not enough information in the OP to make that distinction . To tell if the ruck is playable I would need to see it

(I voted for playable ruck )
 
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Marc Wakeham

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Removed so not to cause offence.
 

ChrisR

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Amazing! Overwhelming agreement that it's a ruck! And, the rarest of events, a ruck with all players on their feet (as per the OP)!

Now comes the tricky part: What if . . . .

. . the players collapse over the ball (without fault) and it becomes unplayable. Who gets the scrum feed? (Why am I getting this feeling we've been here before?)
 

Elpablo73


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If we all agree it's now a ruck, it should go to the team moving forward at the time when the ball became unplayable, if no-one is moving forward then it's the attacking team gets the put in.
 

Taff


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If we all agree it's now a ruck, it should go to the team moving forward at the time when the ball became unplayable, if no-one is moving forward then it's the attacking team gets the put in.
Well, you're sort of right ElPablo. The scrum goes to:

  1. the side moving forward before the ball became unplayable or failing that
  2. the side moving forward before the Ruck was formed or failing even that
  3. the attacking side - BTW this is the team in the opposition half.
You just missed out the 2nd point.

Right, I'm going to say it. I really don't like the new version of the lawbook.

15.19. The ruck ends when the ball becomes unplayable. If the referee decides that the ball will probably not emerge within a reasonable time, a scrum is awarded.

How is a new Ref / spectator / player meant to know who gets the put in at this scrum? It's pointless just saying "Scrum" if you don't then make it clear who gets the throw in. :mad:

Most of us know who gets the throw in because we have been told there are no new laws AND we are fortunate enough to have the previous years lawbook - which was longer but clearer. And if there is one thing you need from a lawbook, it's clarity.
 
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Marc Wakeham

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It is in the new law book Taff is the "scrum" section (page 90). The chart is a good idea but it would help if the expanation was also in the "ruck" section.
 

Taff


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It is in the new law book Taff is the "scrum" section (page 90). The chart is a good idea but it would help if the expanation was also in the "ruck" section.
I agree Marc. I can't be the only one who still refers to the 2017 book with any query, rather than the new "simplified" online version.

Anyway, in answer to the OP, I think we can all safely agree that the original Maul is now a Ruck. :biggrin:
 

Marc Wakeham

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Indeed.

I was drawing up charts to use as a quick reminder of who 's scrum / where is the penalty Mark / options etc is it. So Full marks to WR for getting that biit addressed. However, to omit the detail in the main body is just daft.
 
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