wheeling scrums

[Dickie E]

During the game on Saturday I had maybe half a dozen resets for scrum wheeling through 90 degrees which is quite a lot.

My perception was that both loose heads were stronger than both tight heads (hence the clockwise wheel) and nobody did anything illegal.

Has anyone else any experience with this?

 

[Phil E]

Yes.

Very difficult to penalise anyone side if it's just spinning on it's axis.
Look for tell tale signs like anyone turning in, or stepping out.
If either team gets moving forward before it spins, reward them.

Failing that I just tell the players, "guys I can reset all day long and we can stay on this piece of pitch until you're all exhausted; or you can control it yourselves and sort out the wheeling". Usually does the trick and they power back a bit.

 

[Dickie E]

If either team gets moving forward before it spins, reward them.

not sure what you mean. Reward them how?

 

[Phil E]

not sure what you mean. Reward them how?

If one team gets the scrum moving straight forward and it then spins I would penalise the other team. (so reward them with a penalty).
If they get it moving forward they have no reason to spin it (other than a little bit to shield the 8).
But in this case there would usually be signs like the other team stepping out or the flankers pulling sideways.



I may not be explaining this well??

 

[Dickie E]

If one team gets the scrum moving straight forward and it then spins I would penalise the other team. (so reward them with a penalty).
If they get it moving forward they have no reason to spin it (other than a little bit to shield the 8).
But in this case there would usually be signs like the other team stepping out or the flankers pulling sideways.

I may not be explaining this well??

got it ... thanks

 

[Lee Lifeson-Peart]

If one team gets the scrum moving straight forward and it then spins I would penalise the other team. (so reward them with a penalty).
If they get it moving forward they have no reason to spin it (other than a little bit to shield the 8).
But in this case there would usually be signs like the other team stepping out or the flankers pulling sideways.



I may not be explaining this well??

As well as the assessor I had in Staffs who suggested if the scrum was unsteady on "set" I should penalise the none putting in team. It must be something in the water - obviously not round Burton on Trent I hasten to add. :biggrin:

 

[didds]

If one team gets the scrum moving straight forward and it then spins I would penalise the other team. (so reward them with a penalty).
If they get it moving forward they have no reason to spin it (other than a little bit to shield the 8).

Except to win a penalty of course if this is clear how its to be blown.

 

[Phil E]

Except to win a penalty of course if this is clear how its to be blown.

That would mean players are cheating and we know that would never happen :wink:

To be clear Didds there is normally an indication such as the driving team going forward and the other team shearing off the side as they try to turn it. There are indicators as I have mentioned, I wouldn't blow as a guess, but the drive and turn triggers your perspective to change to what's causing it, makes you look at feet, angles, people pulling instead of pushing, etc.

 

[didds]

yep. agree. But

If they get it moving forward they have no reason to spin it (other than a little bit to shield the 8).

i merely provided another reason to do so. Yes, reliant on not getting caught.

But then

If one team gets the scrum moving straight forward and it then spins I would penalise the other team. (so reward them with a penalty).

So you are either going to reward the team going forward when it wheels with a PK - or you are actually going to see who has caused it to wheel instead of applying some blanket PK interpretation.

 

[Phil E]

Yes :hap:

 

[thepercy]

I think it would be exceedingly rare for the team with the put in to wheel a scrum past 90* intentionally

 

[Marc Wakeham]

During the game on Saturday I had maybe half a dozen resets for scrum wheeling through 90 degrees which is quite a lot.

My perception was that both loose heads were stronger than both tight heads (hence the clockwise wheel) and nobody did anything illegal.

Has anyone else any experience with this?

If you think it is because two props are dominating the other two. Call the stronger ones out: "Look guys you two are far too strong for the LHPs / THPS. Nothing wrong with your scrummaging you're just too good for them. Can you both step off the gas a bit so we keep it straight or we will be resetting all day. No fun for anyone.

Their egos gets a boost and you'll probably find they tone it down.

If one team gets the scrum moving straight forward and it then spins I would penalise the other team. (so reward them with a penalty).
If they get it moving forward they have no reason to spin it (other than a little bit to shield the 8).
But in this case there would usually be signs like the other team stepping out or the flankers pulling sideways.



I may not be explaining this well??

Only if there is an offence. "Penalise" the offender rather that "reward" anyone.

There are a number of reasons why a scrum going forward would spin the scrum exposing the 10 to the back row as well as shielding the 8 and others, including "buying a PK". A couple of shoves and a turn, a few Penalties and under the posts with a possible card. Forwards are not stupid!

Of course keep your eyes open for offences but a small push forward and then a turn does not mean the reterating scrum are illegal.